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  #21  
Old 02-14-2009, 05:43 PM
gladi8r gladi8r is offline
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I know you asked nosparkplgs, but I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents here as well...

Everything on a Bad Boy is made to come apart easily, with just a couple of bolts- For instance, the floor swings up for access to belts, seat swings up for access to electrics and hydro reservoir, engine shroud is held on by 4 bolts (swing away on AOS i think) allowing access to major engine service, both side panel/gas tank units fold out for access to mechanicals, and everything serviceable is a standard SAE size and made for easy access, for fast servicing in the shop or in the field. There is none of the "remove this to get to that" stuff here- everything is directly accessible without removing other mechanical items. All grease points (12 of them) are easily accessible, as well.

Scroll through the "Bad Boy Advantage" tutorial here:
www.badboymowers.com/view/97

The only negative thing to say about their servicability is that since it is so over-built, parts are heavy. I'm ok with that... ;-)

Now, as far as everyone getting their panties in a wad over the "my mower is better" thing, I know there are lots of good mowers out there. I hope many of the companies continue to compete with strong products, since competition only helps us consumers get good equipment at a fair price. You guys that like Scag, that's great- I hear they're excellent mowers. Same with Exmark, etc. I'm not dissing anyone else's choice- I'm just very happy with mine.
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  #22  
Old 02-14-2009, 06:22 PM
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nosparkplugs nosparkplugs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladi8r View Post
I know you asked nosparkplgs, but I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents here as well...

Everything on a Bad Boy is made to come apart easily, with just a couple of bolts- For instance, the floor swings up for access to belts, seat swings up for access to electrics and hydro reservoir, engine shroud is held on by 4 bolts (swing away on AOS i think) allowing access to major engine service, both side panel/gas tank units fold out for access to mechanicals, and everything serviceable is a standard SAE size and made for easy access, for fast servicing in the shop or in the field. There is none of the "remove this to get to that" stuff here- everything is directly accessible without removing other mechanical items. All grease points (12 of them) are easily accessible, as well.

Scroll through the "Bad Boy Advantage" tutorial here:
www.badboymowers.com/view/97

The only negative thing to say about their servicability is that since it is so over-built, parts are heavy. I'm ok with that... ;-)

Now, as far as everyone getting their panties in a wad over the "my mower is better" thing, I know there are lots of good mowers out there. I hope many of the companies continue to compete with strong products, since competition only helps us consumers get good equipment at a fair price. You guys that like Scag, that's great- I hear they're excellent mowers. Same with Exmark, etc. I'm not dissing anyone else's choice- I'm just very happy with mine.

Thank you gladi8R Well said, and you almost read my mind with that post

I would stress the same
5-Advantages of Bad Boy 1.) Strongest frame 4 11ga 2"X2" steel rails & thickest deck @ 3 ga 2.) Eaiser Access, with Patent protected "Swing-Away design. 3.) More Power options from Kawaski, Kohler, Briggs & Stratton to the Vanguard Big Blocks, air cooled/ liquid cooling, Caterpillar Diesels, with the industries largest diesel to date 4 cylinder 35hp/70 lb/ft Cat diesel
4.) longer life, with the strongest frame & deck, largest hydraulic fluid tank, dual filters 18 cu. in. high torque parker ross wheel motors 5.) More Comfortable Ez-Ride system, standard on all AOS diesel, AOS, and lightning series mowers, and standard Michigan suspension seat with lumbar recline

I have owned Scags the Bad Boy is a improvement on the Scag from the servicablity standpoint alone. The Bad Boy is a Exceptional Value, the BB 5-point advantage makes BB the strongest mower on the market, and BB price's make them the undisputed leader in value. By Utilizing Dealer direct pricing, and the latest manufacturing technology. Bad Boy Delivers exceptional quality and price.
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  #23  
Old 02-14-2009, 08:00 PM
djagusch djagusch is online now
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While I see some opinions in there which I'm not going to get in a argument about, but I'll mention something about the hydro system on the Bad Boy.

I think everything on the hydro system (AOS) is good design but the hydro pump has me stumped on why they went with the 16cc pump and 18cc wheel motor. Most use a 10cc or 16cc pump to a 15cc wheel motor and obtains 10 to 12 mph. Hustler uses a 21cc pump and 18cc wheel motor to obtain the 15 mph.

The difference with the 15cc to 18cc wheel motor is displacement of course, but the 18cc handles torque better while the 15cc handles HP better. They picked the 18cc because of the wheel size (a bigger wheel has a lever effect to the axle) and the weight of the machine. The drawback to the 18cc is it takes more fluid volume to work. Which makes me stumped on the 16cc pump. They need to spin the pump more to obtain the 15 mph.

In my calculations a 16cc pump/15cc wheel motor combo going 12 mph the pump is spinning around 2450 rpm. With the Bad Boy set up 16cc/18cc going 15 mph the pump is spinning around 3550 rpm. The max unloaded rpm for that pump is 3600 rpm. Meaning when the motor is at full throttle and not moving that pump is running near red line while others are a 1/3 of the rpm. So the longer life of the hydro system compared to the competitors I would say is false due to this.

If a person tweaked the engine rpm above 3600 rpm, lets say 3700 rpm that pump will be past it's max rpm. It's a weak link in a otherwise good set up.
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  #24  
Old 02-14-2009, 08:32 PM
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nosparkplugs nosparkplugs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djagusch View Post
While I see some opinions in there which I'm not going to get in a argument about, but I'll mention something about the hydro system on the Bad Boy.

I think everything on the hydro system (AOS) is good design but the hydro pump has me stumped on why they went with the 16cc pump and 18cc wheel motor. Most use a 10cc or 16cc pump to a 15cc wheel motor and obtains 10 to 12 mph. Hustler uses a 21cc pump and 18cc wheel motor to obtain the 15 mph.

The difference with the 15cc to 18cc wheel motor is displacement of course, but the 18cc handles torque better while the 15cc handles HP better. They picked the 18cc because of the wheel size (a bigger wheel has a lever effect to the axle) and the weight of the machine. The drawback to the 18cc is it takes more fluid volume to work. Which makes me stumped on the 16cc pump. They need to spin the pump more to obtain the 15 mph.

In my calculations a 16cc pump/15cc wheel motor combo going 12 mph the pump is spinning around 2450 rpm. With the Bad Boy set up 16cc/18cc going 15 mph the pump is spinning around 3550 rpm. The max unloaded rpm for that pump is 3600 rpm. Meaning when the motor is at full throttle and not moving that pump is running near red line while others are a 1/3 of the rpm. So the longer life of the hydro system compared to the competitors I would say is false due to this.

If a person tweaked the engine rpm above 3600 rpm, lets say 3700 rpm that pump will be past it's max rpm. It's a weak link in a otherwise good set up.
Hence the industry's largest hydraulic fluid tank= more fluid volume. With the AOS 35hp Cat diesel their is no need to mess with engine RPM. I have a 2 year drive, engine, spindle and clutch systems warranty and one year on the entire mower with BB. I also took the extended Cat diesel warranty through the local cat dealer too. it's Good enough for me
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  #25  
Old 02-14-2009, 08:46 PM
djagusch djagusch is online now
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I keep my mowers longer than 2 years so hydro life past the warranty matters to me.

The tank volume doesn't do anything with pumping fluid to the wheel motor. It may keep the temps down a bit but doesn't help a bearing being spun faster than it's supposed to be.
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  #26  
Old 02-14-2009, 09:06 PM
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nosparkplugs nosparkplugs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djagusch View Post
I keep my mowers longer than 2 years so hydro life past the warranty matters to me.

The tank volume doesn't do anything with pumping fluid to the wheel motor. It may keep the temps down a bit but doesn't help a bearing being spun faster than it's supposed to be.
So you increase/tweak your engine RPM's. From reading your response the pump motor is running within proper RPM spec's, until you modify engine RPM

Did we not conclude BB uses the same pump motors as Scag

Not trying to start something just asking
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  #27  
Old 02-14-2009, 09:32 PM
gladi8r gladi8r is offline
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Comparing hydro pumps could also be a case of apple vs orange- Standard hydro pumps use hydraulic fluid, right? The Bad Boy pumps use a massive reservoir of 20w50 motor oil, one separate filter for each wheel motor, and a separate cooling fan on top of each motor.
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  #28  
Old 02-14-2009, 09:51 PM
gladi8r gladi8r is offline
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Also, check your specs- the Bad Boy wheel drive pumps on AOS are 18 Cubic Inches, not 18 cc's.

Pump specs on AOS:
Pump Drive; 16 cc Hydro-Gear V-Belt from Engine Crankshaft
Wheel Drive; 18 cu. in. High Torque Hydro-Gear Motors
Pumps; Hydro-Gear 16 cc, 1 Per Rear Wheel Drive Motor
Hydraulic Coolers; System Designed w/2 Coolers for Lower Temperatures

The pumps on my Lightning Z are:
Pump Drive; 12 cc Hydro-Gear V-Belt from Engine Crankshaft
Wheel Drive; 15 cu. in. High Torque Hydro-Gear Motors
Pumps; Hydro-Gear 12 cc, 1 Per Rear Wheel Drive Motor
Hydraulic Coolers; 6" Cooling Fan per Unit
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  #29  
Old 02-15-2009, 12:12 AM
djagusch djagusch is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nosparkplugs View Post
So you increase/tweak your engine RPM's. From reading your response the pump motor is running within proper RPM spec's, until you modify engine RPM

Did we not conclude BB uses the same pump motors as Scag

Not trying to start something just asking

I personally don't tweak the motor, but I know people discuss it on LS time to time.

How BB designed the system they are running their pumps at 98.5% of the max rpm unloaded. Most others are running at 68.5% of the max. I think that most would say longevity would be greater when not running at or near max.

I hear that it never hurts to have extra power in a mower because a person doesn't want it to bog when a person gets way behind on their schedule. Well with that I would guess I bog down my mower 1 or less % when used. But with this set up the hydro's will be very close to max every time a person isn't moving the mower with the engine at full throttle. Which a much larger percentage than the engine bogging.

Yep both company's listed use the same pumps but one is designed near max and one is not. That's a big difference. When looking at wheel motor rpm it's pretty much around 50% of the max rpm. So both MFG are using that range with the wheel motors but not the pumps. Why? I don't know but I come to the conclusion that I would rather have something running 68% than 98.5%.
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  #30  
Old 02-15-2009, 12:14 AM
djagusch djagusch is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladi8r View Post
Comparing hydro pumps could also be a case of apple vs orange- Standard hydro pumps use hydraulic fluid, right? The Bad Boy pumps use a massive reservoir of 20w50 motor oil, one separate filter for each wheel motor, and a separate cooling fan on top of each motor.
Most use 20W50 some use a 15W40 but it does not affect rpm necessary to obtain a certain speed.
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