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  #41  
Old 02-16-2009, 12:45 PM
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DVS Hardscaper DVS Hardscaper is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zedosix View Post
Its a good topic though, it makes you think about what you're doing and if there are better ways of doing it. Thats what these sites are good for. Just push aside the garbage and ingest what you need. I only keep answering because I'm trying to catch up with DVS's thread count.

To add to Zedo's thoughts -

If this dialog is too confusing for some and makes their head spin - I guess we could stop talking about the logistics of sales, management, etc - then maybe we otta turn this site into a site where we all do nothing but post pictures of our patios, skidsteers, and stripped lawns


Zedo, I'll slow down so you can catch up! There are many perks assoociated with being an OFFICIAL Lawnsite BRONZE member!
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Last edited by DVS Hardscaper; 02-16-2009 at 12:51 PM.
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  #42  
Old 02-16-2009, 05:20 PM
LB1234 LB1234 is offline
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DVS...how do you backfill your trenches? Push back with the skid bucket? Attachement that does it? Do you backfill with "clean" backfill? How to you make sure the trench doesn't/is done settling?
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  #43  
Old 02-17-2009, 12:04 AM
CertPro CertPro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post
Like I said - 13 years and no pop-up to this date. It's my opinion that they should not be used in climates where the elements of winter exist.

One of the aspects I like abour internet forums is that people put words into your mouth when the writing is there in black and white. Per your post, No where did I EVER mention utilizing a "sewer or waste water pipe to drain", nor did I EVER mention "cutting a hole in a curb". Such a practice is something that is not even an option for my small company.


My point is this:

All I am doing is provoking thought.

Frankly, I don't care how anyone does things. People do things wrong all over the world every day. People do things right every day. If we all did things the same way - we would all be equal. And if we were all equal - we'd all be competing with one another. It's our ("our" as in we as business owners) individual methods, beliefs, experiences, etc that are what make us whatever it is that our clients like us for. There could be 25 hardscape contractors in one town. But does that mean you have 25 competitors??? No, it doesn't. Not by any stretch. The only ones that are your competitors are the ones that are equal to you. Equal in craftsmanship, equal in customer service, and so forth.

It's my opinion that a pop up is a lame way of addressing drainage issues. Build a $20,000(+) patio and address the drainage with a mechanical component that is susceptable to freezing and failure? To me thats like building a million dollar home with vinyl siding instead of brick, stone, stucco, etc.

Who here has actually put your boots on, hopped in the trusty pick up truck and gone out and checked their emitters in weather conditions as depicted in the photo I posted??

Standing water in pipes that are not placed below the frost line will freeze.

Water around the perimeter of the piece that "pops" up that freezes can prevent the unit from performing. Gravel around the pop-up still freezes! Frozen water = water that doesn't flow!

Think about it - large jet liners have onboard de-icing equipment. If a hydraulic flap that operates from hundreds/thousands of P.S.I. on a wing can freeze up - the so can a mechanism that functions solely on hydrostatic gravity.


Here's a challange!

To make a valid argument that they do work and do not fail I would like for anyone that is in an area where there is a layer of ice on the snow like the pic I provided to randomly go out to a job site and take a picture of the spot where the emitter is. The temps must be close to or below the freezing mark. If there is snow or ice around it or overit - don't disturb it. Be honest and take a pic. If the emitter performed as expected and the snow and ice is melted - take a picture and then I just may be a believer that they do work

DVS, I understand what you're saying, but if you install the blowout as I mentioned, there is no problem. In the event the emitter is unable to function, the water escapes through the blowout. It's going to follow the path of least resistance. Certainly, it's easier for the water to flow out the blowout than it is to travel all the way up to the roof. If you doubt that then you can install a backflow preventer (we've done that too).

We've never had a report of a pop-up not working. I've never had a customer call and tell me that water is blowing out of the top of the downspout, running over the gutters, etc. Not trying to be a smart butt, but it hasn't happened. However, I do see your point and I think the blowout addresses that.

Obviously, where grades allow, daylighting is the best option. However, where grades do not allow, I think the emitter is a viable option and the blowout addresses your concerns.
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  #44  
Old 02-17-2009, 12:15 PM
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Ok, so now a blow out valve.

Ok, explain this to me in terms of below freezing temps and below freezing ground temps.

Ok, water builds up in the drain line (the pipe). Once it reaches a certain level - the emitter "pops-up".

Ok, so now if the ground is frozen, there is water laying in the pipe right below the point where the valve pops up. Thus, there is a chunk of ice in the pipe. Known as a blockage. From what you wrote you mean to tell me that this "blow out" will take the chunk ice and it will eject it?

If things underground don't freeze - then why is my well line 32-inches deep?

Pop-ups are probably great! As long as you live in SC, FL, GA, CA, AZ, TX, places like that.

As long as my name is on that job, and as long as temps hit or come close to the freezing mark - we're gonna do all we can to stick to that caveman-old theory that water flows downhill
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My Equipment Brag List:

-1 CAT hat
-16 pairs of Hanes socks (the Heavy Duty model), many with holes.
-12 pairs of underwear, ranging from Joe Boxers to Jockey, many are in need of replacement. (no more photo requests please)
-hundreds of t-shirts. Some w/ grease stains, some torn & tattered.
-7 pairs of jeans, ranging from Levis to Polo to GAP. 1/2 of them have holes in 'em.
-1 belt
-1 pair of old worn out Nike shoes.
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  #45  
Old 02-17-2009, 01:54 PM
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Danscapes Danscapes is offline
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That's why if you follow the instructions there should never be any water in the pipe. The pop up elbow has a drain hole drilled in the bottom of the 90* so that residual water that doesn't come out of the pop up emitter can dissipate into the hole filled with gravel that should be installed under the fitting.
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  #46  
Old 02-17-2009, 02:59 PM
CertPro CertPro is offline
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Well if the melting water you are addressing is blocked by this "ice clog" it will back up to the point of the blowout and flow that way. Do you not think that this is a viable option?
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  #47  
Old 02-17-2009, 08:38 PM
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PlatinumLandCon PlatinumLandCon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CertPro View Post
Well if the melting water you are addressing is blocked by this "ice clog" it will back up to the point of the blowout and flow that way. Do you not think that this is a viable option?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this just sounds like 2 pop-ups on 1 line, with 1 of them further up the line and one at the end. How is this blowout different than simply adding another popup? Who says your blowout won't be blocked with ice?
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  #48  
Old 02-17-2009, 10:24 PM
CertPro CertPro is offline
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The blowout is a smaller diameter pipe that is above ground T'd off the 4" pvc that goes underground. If the underground pipe gets clogged or if the pop-up fails to work for some reason the water will be able to escape via the blowout rather than backing up the downspout. We usually put a rubber boot on it to pretty it up. It works very well. Let's face it, the probability of your 4" pipe becoming totally frozen is pretty unrealistic. Especially since you have that drain hole in the pop-up with your gravel drain field underneath.
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  #49  
Old 02-18-2009, 12:15 AM
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loupiscopolandscaping loupiscopolandscaping is offline
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id have to vote 3/4 clean dry well depending on soil and water table
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  #50  
Old 02-18-2009, 10:41 AM
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Obviously the dry well is the bees knees, but when dealing with budget constraints they are not always viable, plus if the HO doesnt have screens on the gutters your dry well will become clogged and eventually have to be torn up.
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