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  #21  
Old 03-08-2009, 08:28 PM
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I thought it was Forest Gump!

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Originally Posted by irrig8r View Post
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  #22  
Old 03-08-2009, 10:44 PM
David Gretzmier David Gretzmier is offline
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to the question- are you asking what lamps/fixtures work or don't? I don't reccomend any as I have not long tem tested any that have stayed on. I have not tested the kumho that James uses, but he has said that it works for him.

I've tested a number of multi-5mm, led mr-16's, single and multi-crees and SSC led's, single 1,3,5 watt luxeons, and a number of clones with different external heat fins, etc. they all fail, or lose thier lumens quickly. it seems pretty ridiculous to continue when the success rate is zero. The color on all were vastly inferior to halogen. the spread/dispersion was inferior.

The same has been true on the Christmas light side of the biz. lots of promises, but expensive poor results.

The only place that LED's are having some degree of success are on flashlights. I have a dozen or so cree, and high power P7 ssc led and the newer cree MCE LED flashlights and they are extremely reliable and ten times as bright as a Maglight ( this is an actual Maglight, not a new-old Lawnsite member)

I am completely behind Mike G on this one. The best product out for our clients are Halogens. period. but hey- I've said it before and i'll say it again- I am happy to have you guys out there experimenting large scale. your massive success or failure at the hands of your pocketbook and clients will pave the way for what works and what does not. we need you guys out there.
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  #23  
Old 03-08-2009, 10:58 PM
David Gretzmier David Gretzmier is offline
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also- It seems Steve Jobs has had some pretty good sucess, Apple computer was co-founded by him, after the appple 2 and the Mac, he was forced out in '85 or so. So, in '86, he bought the animation division from Lucasfilm and formed Pixar. Toy, Story, Monsters Inc, etc. Disney essentially bought that for a gazillion dollars in '06. He went back to Apple in 97 after they bought out the new computer company he built, the NeXt. bear in mind he was the CEO of Apple AND Pixar for awhile. The ipod, the Iphone, the apple music App store, jeez, what does a guy have to do to be successful ?

I also surfed around the internet to find out where Bill Gates bought out anything from Apple, software or Hardware, and could not find it. Mike G- can you shed light on this ....?
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  #24  
Old 03-08-2009, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by David Gretzmier View Post
also- It seems Steve Jobs has had some pretty good sucess, Apple computer was co-founded by him, after the appple 2 and the Mac, he was forced out in '85 or so. So, in '86, he bought the animation division from Lucasfilm and formed Pixar. Toy, Story, Monsters Inc, etc. Disney essentially bought that for a gazillion dollars in '06. He went back to Apple in 97 after they bought out the new computer company he built, the NeXt. bear in mind he was the CEO of Apple AND Pixar for awhile. The ipod, the Iphone, the apple music App store, jeez, what does a guy have to do to be successful ?

I also surfed around the internet to find out where Bill Gates bought out anything from Apple, software or Hardware, and could not find it. Mike G- can you shed light on this ....?
Gates didn't buy Apple out he gave them money to keep them afloat. I said Jobs was succesful and even called him a genius. His success did not come as an early pioneer though. Speaking of Pioneers how about Bill Locklin and Nightscaping. He was succesful until he had competition and things arguably went down hill from there.
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  #25  
Old 03-09-2009, 12:18 AM
dglights dglights is offline
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Low voltage halogen is very energy efficient Mike? Since you said you moved 5000 fixtures last year, assume they're all 20W, 6 hours per night, that's 219,000kwh Compare that to 43,800kwh using LED. If you're paying the bill you notice. That's right, 4Watt LED, 7Volt input vs 20Watt halogen. I guess everyone has forgotten the side by side photo Billy posted with someone guessing the LED was the halogen. Wasn't even a real LED fixture. Didn't someone post awhile back complaining the Kichler LED puck light was to bright.

If you had the product knowledge I bet you could have convinced your client's Architect to go with another fixture.
Please tell me how halogen is the best lighting out there, besides the maintenance contracts and difficult installation.
If you don't want to debate LED and Halogen don't post on these types of threads. Pretty simple.
Why did you choose LED for your transformer work light? Wasn't there an incandescent bulb you liked?

Anybody know the input voltage for the Luxxo lamp? I didn't see it on the spec. With 4 chips I'm guessing it's around 12V. Multi-tap required or your in the same boat as halogen.
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  #26  
Old 03-09-2009, 08:14 AM
MAGLIGHTING MAGLIGHTING is offline
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Originally Posted by dglights View Post
Low voltage halogen is very energy efficient Mike? Since you said you moved 5000 fixtures last year, assume they're all 20W, 6 hours per night, that's 219,000kwh Compare that to 43,800kwh using LED. If you're paying the bill you notice. That's right, 4Watt LED, 7Volt input vs 20Watt halogen. I guess everyone has forgotten the side by side photo Billy posted with someone guessing the LED was the halogen. Wasn't even a real LED fixture. Didn't someone post awhile back complaining the Kichler LED puck light was to bright.

If you had the product knowledge I bet you could have convinced your client's Architect to go with another fixture.
Please tell me how halogen is the best lighting out there, besides the maintenance contracts and difficult installation.
If you don't want to debate LED and Halogen don't post on these types of threads. Pretty simple.
Why did you choose LED for your transformer work light? Wasn't there an incandescent bulb you liked?

Anybody know the input voltage for the Luxxo lamp? I didn't see it on the spec. With 4 chips I'm guessing it's around 12V. Multi-tap required or your in the same boat as halogen.
I chose the LED's for my work lights in the transformers because of no other reason but space. There are three overhead and the light pattern stinks but better than nothing. I have had a 50% failure rate with the original LED indicator lights within the first year. We have changed to a different brand and we'll see. This has not reinforced my confidence in the product.

Is that what you're looking for a debate with LED VS. Halogen? Sorry pal, I'm too busy installing halogen lights to be bothered with your nonsense. No smiley face.
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  #27  
Old 03-09-2009, 08:53 AM
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[QUOTE=David Gretzmier;2835150]I've tested a number of multi-5mm, led mr-16's, single and multi-crees and SSC led's, single 1,3,5 watt luxeons, and a number of clones with different external heat fins, etc. they all fail, or lose their lumens quickly. it seems pretty ridiculous to continue when the success rate is zero. The color on all were vastly inferior to halogen. the spread/dispersion was inferior. David, how many of these products above were engineered and designed into a fixture or lamp package by specialists who understand the specific requirements of the LEDs themselves? You cannot simply wire up some LED engines in your shop and then expect them to perform properly. Do you really think that the LED industry would exist if the results of their efforts provided a 0% success rate? Give me a break.


The only place that LED's are having some degree of success are on flashlights. I have a dozen or so cree, and high power P7 ssc led and the newer cree MCE LED flashlights and they are extremely reliable and ten times as bright as a Maglight Another wild, broad sweeping comment. To state this is absurd. LEDs are making huge inroads into all forms of 'traditional' lighting. From civic, commercial, industrial and residential lighting, there are scores of excellent products available and success stories from every corner of the world. Get yourself subscribed to a few lighting periodicals my friend, or attend a major international lighting conference. LEDs are here and are now. Including functional, efficient, long lasting, well engineered LED lamps such as the Luxxo and the CRS line.

/QUOTE]

I have no qualms with you deciding to stick with incandescent lamp technology in your business. Where I do have an issue is when wild, inaccurate, misleading claims are made in a public forum. To state that LEDs are ineffective, untested, risky, etc. is simply wrong. There is good and bad in every sector of the industry, (prism lamps vs. GE for example) you just have to do your reading, get educated and go with that which works.

Regards.
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  #28  
Old 03-09-2009, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dglights View Post
Anybody know the input voltage for the Luxxo lamp? I didn't see it on the spec. With 4 chips I'm guessing it's around 12V. Multi-tap required or your in the same boat as halogen.
The rated input voltage for the Luxxo LED MR16 lamp is 10 to 14 Volts AC or DC.

I have bench tested the lamps down to 9Vac input and saw no visible deterioration in the light output or colour. As you start to drop input voltage down to 8Vac and lower the lamp will flicker for a bit and then simply turn off. It is not dimmable due to the nature of the onboard power management circuit that it employs.

In fact, it is the proprietary power management circuit on the Luxxo lamp that greatly assists in its ability to operate below the Nichia LED chips recommended heat ratings. Beware of LED lamps that are fully dimmable, as they are using linear power circuits which tend to cause the LED chips to run overly hot. (as explained to me by the lead engineer at Kumho in 2008)

Regards
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  #29  
Old 03-09-2009, 10:02 AM
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NiteTymeIlluminations NiteTymeIlluminations is offline
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  #30  
Old 03-09-2009, 01:05 PM
dglights dglights is offline
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Mike you should stop shooting arrows. No smiley face. I could of helped you with your little work light. Your lights not working says more about the manufacturer than the light source. LED indicator lights have been around since the 60's.

You haven't been able to step up and argue halogen.
Try it, it'll be good practice for when you go up against guys that know both.

For everyone already using both, keep informed so that you can speak intelligently when choosing the appropriate light source.
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