Ontario Suppliers for Organic (not banned) products

[edgewood]

Ok, so we know the ban is approaching, what have you guys in ON found for products that are available to smaller LCO's for weed control, grubs, fert.?

I know what the basics are, and im not talking about visiting Home Depot - but just wondering if there are any recommendations for Brand names etc. that work.

[Smallaxe]

Originally Posted by edgewood

Ok, so we know the ban is approaching, what have you guys in ON found for products that are available to smaller LCO's for weed control, grubs, fert.?

I know what the basics are, and im not talking about visiting Home Depot - but just wondering if there are any recommendations for Brand names etc. that work.

The other option is to: 'Grow Grass' to the point of maturity, in which it no longer needs 'cides of any kind.

I have 0 crabgrass in my, total control, lawns. This was accomplished with 0 pre-m.
Broadleaf pops up after a hot dry year in which the turf was compromised enough to allow a dandelion seed or 2, to find a home. "Pull the weed and drop some seed", is a good catch phrase.

We still have the option, in this country, to call the sprayer guy to do some spot spraying if the broadleaf get too populous, but there is no need for constant broadcast application, whether it is organic or synthetic.

In plant husbandry, it is good to raise plants, rather than spray chemicals.
We are NOT in the pro-plant business. We are in the kill-plant business.

It is almost as if we can only spray chemicals and have NO ability to raise grass at all.

[ICT Bill]

Originally Posted by edgewood

Ok, so we know the ban is approaching, what have you guys in ON found for products that are available to smaller LCO's for weed control, grubs, fert.?

I know what the basics are, and im not talking about visiting Home Depot - but just wondering if there are any recommendations for Brand names etc. that work.

Lets see,
Selective weed control on existing turf is the tough one, I ask everyone I touch about it and I have yet to run across someone that says "hey try this it works great" beside a trowel and your hands I have not found anything that works well
Horticulture oils work great for things like scale
corn gluten meal or liquid corn gluten meal work well as a pre-emergent, environmental factor is about the only Canadian firm I know of
They also sell nematodes that can be sprayed on a yard that seek out and kill grubs, they enter the grubs body and lay eggs, the grub is used as a hatchery basically

[edgewood]

Originally Posted by Smallaxe

The other option is to: 'Grow Grass' to the point of maturity, in which it no longer needs 'cides of any kind.

I have 0 crabgrass in my, total control, lawns. This was accomplished with 0 pre-m.
Broadleaf pops up after a hot dry year in which the turf was compromised enough to allow a dandelion seed or 2, to find a home. "Pull the weed and drop some seed", is a good catch phrase.

We still have the option, in this country, to call the sprayer guy to do some spot spraying if the broadleaf get too populous, but there is no need for constant broadcast application, whether it is organic or synthetic.

In plant husbandry, it is good to raise plants, rather than spray chemicals.
We are NOT in the pro-plant business. We are in the kill-plant business.

It is almost as if we can only spray chemicals and have NO ability to raise grass at all.

Well, that is all true, and I have never been the proponent of "cosmetic" spray application besides spot spraying. I have spent too much time schooling customers on how to "grow" a lawn that I haven't kept up on the latest and greatest products (or mostly the best place to buy them). I can go down to Canadian Tire and pay what seems like a monthly salary for their stuff, but I am mostly after a wholesaler that deals with this stuff.

I know about the nematodes, sounds like they work ok. Is the corn gluten worth all its cracked up to be for a pre emergent?

[ICT Bill]

Originally Posted by edgewood

Well, that is all true, and I have never been the proponent of "cosmetic" spray application besides spot spraying. I have spent too much time schooling customers on how to "grow" a lawn that I haven't kept up on the latest and greatest products (or mostly the best place to buy them). I can go down to Canadian Tire and pay what seems like a monthly salary for their stuff, but I am mostly after a wholesaler that deals with this stuff.

I know about the nematodes, sounds like they work ok. Is the corn gluten worth all its cracked up to be for a pre emergent?

According to Iowa State testing the liquid CGM should have low 60% control the first year, mid 70% control second year and a low 90% control 3rd year, it seems to stay in the low 90% after that
They have 17 years of testing data at the site, just type in gluten in the search box and it will take you to the CGM site

[Optimum Lawn]

Here is one weed control product for Ontario Thats LEGAL
http://www.weedmancanada.com/pdf/Sarritor_Flyer.pdf
Now the Weedman does not tell you the truth about this "fungus" either....since they want to sell it to the homeowner as the "natural" fix
Problem is this fungus only works if the weather stays in a small window over the course of a week or so...coolish 15-24C and moist
Sarritor web site FAQ.
http://www.sarritor.ca/faq.html

A Customer had one lawn done last fall by Weedman using Sarritor.....nothing died
For the time to apply plus $$$ of product they could have pulled the odd weed out by hand and considered it done
As I see it, if this fungus worked so well we would have no weeds to start with naturally (since it occurs naturally here in the evironment)

Oh well
Will be a Interesting year Here in Ontario

Now if someone can tell me how to get rid of creeping charlie (organically) I'm all ears

[exe weedman]

At least sarritor is an option. I think it is going to be challenging to ensure that home owners do their part with regards to this product ie. keeping it moist until the time that it overtakes the weeds. I have been told that fall applications worked best probably because weather conditions were more desirable. I don't know if sarritor alone alone will revolutionize natural weed control but I am glad that research is heading in this direction.

Lawn care operators have promised too much in the past and we have created a monster......homeowners that have a fit if they have one weed. Those days are over and I am glad they are.

I personally am very interested in principles of organics. Considering soil health and how that directly relates to plant health makes a heck of a lot of sense to me and I think it would solve a lot of our turf related problems.

i appreciate all the information from this site and I look forward to learning a lot more in the future!

[HayBay]

We tell our customers straight out 30% control with corn gluten at 20lb/1000 sq ft of product. over a 3 year period. The lawn will look greener and thick but clover, dandelion, thistle, wood sorel,etc...will still be there.

We have tried this product for 3 years now wit soil testing and corrections on a few customers under 3000ft sq.
This is a pre emergent product. It does not affect the existing weeds only some seeds by dehydration.

Sarritor or Phoma Macrostoma are the only alternative products. Good luck getting them till next year at least. They have a short shelf life as well.
I have posted threads on both products with some info.

[Smallaxe]

Originally Posted by Optimum Lawn

:

Now if someone can tell me how to get rid of creeping charlie (organically) I'm all ears

My son claims he has had great success using an iron rake.

[ICT Bill]

Originally Posted by exe weedman

At least sarritor is an option. I think it is going to be challenging to ensure that home owners do their part with regards to this product ie. keeping it moist until the time that it overtakes the weeds. I have been told that fall applications worked best probably because weather conditions were more desirable. I don't know if sarritor alone alone will revolutionize natural weed control but I am glad that research is heading in this direction.

Lawn care operators have promised too much in the past and we have created a monster......homeowners that have a fit if they have one weed. Those days are over and I am glad they are.

I personally am very interested in principles of organics. Considering soil health and how that directly relates to plant health makes a heck of a lot of sense to me and I think it would solve a lot of our turf related problems.

i appreciate all the information from this site and I look forward to learning a lot more in the future!

Dandelions are pretty simple to manage really, they are telling you the soil is compacted and probably low in calcium. head the soil in the opposite direction and they basically go away, it is not an environment that they like to live in

It reminds me of a speech I heard recently about getting away from a product oriented lawn care business and moving to a systems based approach instead.