Register free!
Search
 
     

Click for Weather
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 03-30-2009, 08:57 AM
David Gretzmier David Gretzmier is offline
LawnSite Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Fayetteville,AR
Posts: 3,652
All true. But perhaps folks are just wanting a starting point to recovery. If i have the choice of sitting home and doing nothing ( which is the case here at least 1 or 2 days a week now) or something that earns me a living, I am willing to start somewhere as long as the homeowner is on board for the cost of the end result.

It is easier to scrap it all and replace. All of Mike G's comments are true, usually it is all junk. but give me a serviceable trans, PVC pipe already run under sidewalks and drives, and a day, I can make a great impact on a homeowner afraid to spend larger money in todays economy.

Like mike said, many folks will be upset they have lost 100% of what they invested just a few years ago. If I can come in and replace/repair 25% of thier system on the majors, that goes a long way to building trust for the rest of the 75%. maybe they won't do the other 75 % today, but next month, next year, If what you do works, They will want you back. And it beats staying at home typing on lawnsite.
__________________
freedom
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-30-2009, 08:04 PM
MAGLIGHTING MAGLIGHTING is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Gretzmier View Post
All true. But perhaps folks are just wanting a starting point to recovery. If i have the choice of sitting home and doing nothing ( which is the case here at least 1 or 2 days a week now) or something that earns me a living, I am willing to start somewhere as long as the homeowner is on board for the cost of the end result.

It is easier to scrap it all and replace. All of Mike G's comments are true, usually it is all junk. but give me a serviceable trans, PVC pipe already run under sidewalks and drives, and a day, I can make a great impact on a homeowner afraid to spend larger money in todays economy.

Like mike said, many folks will be upset they have lost 100% of what they invested just a few years ago. If I can come in and replace/repair 25% of thier system on the majors, that goes a long way to building trust for the rest of the 75%. maybe they won't do the other 75 % today, but next month, next year, If what you do works, They will want you back. And it beats staying at home typing on lawnsite.

Nobody said they had to do it all at once. I am a believer that a little bit of the pie is better than nothing at all as you are hopefully building a long term relationship(as long as the project is being done properly with materials that will last and there is some profit there). Billy and I share the same sentiment of not getting involved with a failed system when the client is not commited to doing the job right. Damage to my credibility by band aiding someone elses botched work is not worth my reputation and the follow up headaches because as soon as you touch it you own it. In the client's mind the last who touched it is responsible including pre-existing conditions. It's just not worth it.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-30-2009, 09:52 PM
Mr. Quik electric's Avatar
Mr. Quik electric Mr. Quik electric is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Indianapolis, In.
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGLIGHTING View Post
Nobody said they had to do it all at once. I am a believer that a little bit of the pie is better than nothing at all as you are hopefully building a long term relationship(as long as the project is being done properly with materials that will last and there is some profit there). Billy and I share the same sentiment of not getting involved with a failed system when the client is not commited to doing the job right. Damage to my credibility by band aiding someone elses botched work is not worth my reputation and the follow up headaches because as soon as you touch it you own it. In the client's mind the last who touched it is responsible including pre-existing conditions. It's just not worth it.
I agree wholeheartedly. 100%
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-30-2009, 10:32 PM
Pro-Scapes's Avatar
Pro-Scapes Pro-Scapes is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Mississippi
Posts: 4,224
True story I kid you not.

I was doing an install 3 yrs ago for a doctor who works with Ashley. I was installing cast lighting. Another doctor across the street came over and asked me if I had any grease filled wire nuts he could buy. I asked him what he was doing and he said fixing his lighting wire again. I went over to look at it and his malibu lights has been spliced up about 15 times across a walkway. I asked him if he was interested in a new system that would be trouble free and his reply is.

"No this has been pretty reliable. I only need to fix a connection or change a bulb once a month. Thats pretty good for this low voltage stuff"

He got a bit upset when I wouldnt work on the system. Even back then I knew better.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-31-2009, 12:13 AM
klkanders klkanders is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Midwest
Posts: 840
Sounds like the doc was pretty proud of his repairs Billy! He didn't happen to be a surgeon did he? hmmm

Keith
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-31-2009, 08:31 AM
Pro-Scapes's Avatar
Pro-Scapes Pro-Scapes is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Mississippi
Posts: 4,224
No , The home I was installing belonged to the surgeon.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-31-2009, 06:16 PM
EOL's Avatar
EOL EOL is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 62
I started selling these customers on the 24 volt system by unique. As you know you go up to the first fixture and it might read 12.5 volt and down to the last one it might read 7.5 volt. Well instead of rewiring everything to make it right and running out more homeruns to compensate for the load, you can eliminate that because now you can put more fixtures on a single homerun and your voltage spread is greater on a 24 volt lamp. I save them money, I gain a life long customer, and I don't have to rewire the whole system.
__________________
Efrain Ramirez CLVLT/0954
EXCLUSIVE OUTDOOR LIGHTING
www.eolighting.com
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-31-2009, 07:14 PM
Pro-Scapes's Avatar
Pro-Scapes Pro-Scapes is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Mississippi
Posts: 4,224
Efrain. I can see your point but you are still giving them the most expensive part of the system.

I also encourage you to strip back some of that insulation and take a good look at that wire that has had bad connections for years. In my experience it is oxidized and corroded not to mention sometimes brittle which I am attibuting to being either cheap wire or over loaded.

You can also never know how many times it has been spliced between the trans and the first fixture. I applaud you for getting them into a new system vs trying to fix junk but you wouldnt go out to buy a brand new car that had a junk transmission and driveshaft. That is esentially what wire does.. Transfers power from the engine (transformer) to the parts that actually move you (fixtures)

I am pretty sure we have all reused some portion of wire especially when it is unreplaceable without alot of disturbance to the property. I myself am very careful about reusing old wires. It has usually been spliced a million times.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-31-2009, 07:41 PM
MAGLIGHTING MAGLIGHTING is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-Scapes View Post
Efrain. I can see your point but you are still giving them the most expensive part of the system.

I also encourage you to strip back some of that insulation and take a good look at that wire that has had bad connections for years. In my experience it is oxidized and corroded not to mention sometimes brittle which I am attibuting to being either cheap wire or over loaded.

You can also never know how many times it has been spliced between the trans and the first fixture. I applaud you for getting them into a new system vs trying to fix junk but you wouldnt go out to buy a brand new car that had a junk transmission and driveshaft. That is esentially what wire does.. Transfers power from the engine (transformer) to the parts that actually move you (fixtures)

I am pretty sure we have all reused some portion of wire especially when it is unreplaceable without alot of disturbance to the property. I myself am very careful about reusing old wires. It has usually been spliced a million times.

Billy, you are wise way beyond the amount of years you have been doing this work. Excellent post !
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-31-2009, 08:07 PM
MAGLIGHTING MAGLIGHTING is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by EOL View Post
I started selling these customers on the 24 volt system by unique. As you know you go up to the first fixture and it might read 12.5 volt and down to the last one it might read 7.5 volt. Well instead of rewiring everything to make it right and running out more homeruns to compensate for the load, you can eliminate that because now you can put more fixtures on a single homerun and your voltage spread is greater on a 24 volt lamp. I save them money, I gain a life long customer, and I don't have to rewire the whole system.
If you have 5 volts between your first and last fixture you will still have 5 volts between your first and last fixture no matter what voltage you put to your first fixture. No transformer will compensate for poor wiring technique. I am positive Unique will tell you the same.

Perhaps a 10% drop is palatable to some. With 24V that's 2.4V compared to 12V and 1.2V drop (which to me is not acceptable, I hit .5V spread on each and every fixture on each and every project).

There is no cutting corners or a free lunch. I am sure Unique is not teaching this method. Nate has always been festidious when it comes to power distribution and load balancing.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:47 PM.

Page generated in 0.11729 seconds with 7 queries