Register free!


Reply
 
Thread Tools   Display Modes
  #11  
Old 04-02-2009, 10:02 AM
Pro-Scapes's Avatar
Pro-Scapes Pro-Scapes is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Mississippi
Posts: 4,224
I didnt say nightscaping did I. I am not sure how they screwed a 50a fuse in. If I am mistaken as you say then the 50A on the fustat must have have been a typographical error.

I never said it wasnt installer error we are talking about lighting NO NO's not product prefferences or secondary protection.

I agree fuses do provide a good protection, This is why I use an inline fuse for any structurally mounted fixtures with the lowest possible rating.. However in our climate I find more fuse sockets rusted or rotted out than I do working ones. I am quite sure there are at least 1000 perfectly good working power centers in my area.

On the magnetic breakers. If you overload it once again it is installer error just like installing a fuse that is too large.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-02-2009, 10:57 AM
irrig8r irrig8r is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 4,545
Quote:
Originally Posted by INTEGRA Works Lighting View Post
Billy, I am quite sure you cannot put a Bussman Fustat of a 50A rating into a Nightscaping Powercenter. Just as the S-15 fustat uses a different shape base than the S-25 fustat, I would suspect that any S-50 (which are 240V by the way) would not fit into either the S-15 or S-25 Socket.

Perhaps you were mistaken? Or, perhaps the reported S-50, 240V "fustat" you saw had been forced or jury rigged into the socket? In any case, installer/maintainer stupidity cannot be entirely stopped, but don't blame the product. "It" did nothing wrong.

Personally, I prefer the instantaneous response that a fustat will provide to an overload situation. I have seen too many magnetic breakers that either do not trip, or take much too long to trip when overloads occur. Both technologies are fine for shorts, but I don't really want to have the potential for a slow meltdown under some mulch when a magnetic breaker does not respond to an overload situation. Don't believe me, try it for yourself. Load up a transformer to near is maximum capacity through the secondary circuit's magnetic breaker, then slowly start adding more load to that cable, see what happens when you gradually increase the load on the magnetic breaker.
Believe it or not there are other brands of "Fustat" out there besides Buss. I have run across a 20A and a 30A that homeowners have used in place of 25A (never a 50).

The 30A was either yellow or orange... I asked Bill about it and he said no problem. He said the Powercenters were overbuilt and purposely underrated to 25A. Obviously the 20A would limit the use oof the circuit.
__________________
Landscaper. Irrigator. Illuminator. Music lover. Coffee drinker.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-02-2009, 01:08 PM
JoeyD's Avatar
JoeyD JoeyD is offline
LawnSite Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Escondido, CA
Posts: 2,965
Spade Fuses are the best for secondary protection!!!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-04-2009, 02:10 AM
David Gretzmier David Gretzmier is offline
LawnSite Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Fayetteville,AR
Posts: 3,656
ah, yes, fustats. who doesn't have at least a few in the tool box or bag? why is it I have replaced hundreds of fustats but i rarely ( once yearly? once every 2 years? ) reset a built in breaker on a trans?
__________________
freedom
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-04-2009, 09:35 AM
INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting's Avatar
INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Muskoka, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,009
None the less David. In many overload situations, the fuse is going to protect your system whereas the magnetic breaker will not even notice the situation.

Not a lot of people understand that the S series Fustat is actually a diagonstic tool. Depending on how it 'blows' it will tell you if you have a short or an overload on the circuit. A breaker does not do that for you.
__________________
James Solecki
INTEGRA ~ Bespoke Lighting Systems ®
JSLDesign Inc.


www.integralighting.com

www.facebook.com/INTEGRA.Lighting

Affiliations: IESNA, IALD, IDA, AOLP, LO, MBA
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-04-2009, 10:05 AM
MAGLIGHTING MAGLIGHTING is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 248
[QUOTE=INTEGRA Works Lighting;2906734]None the less David. In many overload situations, the fuse is going to protect your system whereas the magnetic breaker will not even notice the situation.

Not a lot of people understand that the S series Fustat is actually a diagonstic tool. Depending on how it 'blows' it will tell you if you have a short or an overload on the circuit. A breaker does not do that for you.[/QUOTE]

This is not always true. 90% of the time the spring will collapse and result in shutting down the circuit even with shorts. Shorts are supposed to burn the link and that rarely happens only on severe dead shorting will this occur.

An amp probe will give you the same diagnostic capability. The magnetic breaker will give you just enough time before tripping and resetting to find the cable that has the high amperage.

Fuses are no longer used in home breaker panels, magnetic breakers are. UL, ETL, ARL doesn't have a problem with magnetic breakers.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-04-2009, 10:37 AM
INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting's Avatar
INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Muskoka, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,009
Mike, I am not suggesting that the magnetic breaker is inferior or unsafe or unapproved etc etc. My point on the fustats is that they do still offer some functionality that can be beneficial. (The magnetic breaker still requires more time to sense and trip in situations of circuit overload than a fuse does... this is one reason that in-line fusing is recommended by many for all building and structure mounted circuits.)

It might be a bit of a dinosaur, but it is not completely obsolete either.

Regards.
__________________
James Solecki
INTEGRA ~ Bespoke Lighting Systems ®
JSLDesign Inc.


www.integralighting.com

www.facebook.com/INTEGRA.Lighting

Affiliations: IESNA, IALD, IDA, AOLP, LO, MBA
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-05-2009, 04:20 PM
MAGLIGHTING MAGLIGHTING is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by INTEGRA Works Lighting View Post
Mike, I am not suggesting that the magnetic breaker is inferior or unsafe or unapproved etc etc. My point on the fustats is that they do still offer some functionality that can be beneficial. (The magnetic breaker still requires more time to sense and trip in situations of circuit overload than a fuse does... this is one reason that in-line fusing is recommended by many for all building and structure mounted circuits.)

It might be a bit of a dinosaur, but it is not completely obsolete either.

Regards.
The magnetic breaker still requires more time to sense and trip in situations of circuit overload than a fuse does...

This may be true in certain situations depending upon cable gauge size and distance the short occurs from the transformer. Most 25 amp magnetic breakers are rated to 32 amps. Even at 32 amps the cable will not get hot enough to melt or cause a fire.

For me However the fustat has proven to be too unreliable and too much of a problem over the years . I just can't justify charging a client $90 to come out to unscrew and replace a fustat that blew for no apparent reason (old age, voltage spike etc.) and it ends up costing me time and money as I must eat it. With the volume of work I do there is no way I could continue to use this relic in my business. Otherwise I'd be buried in call backs for no good reason. It's just a smart business decision I made plain and simple. Since getting that object out of my life my call backs for circuit shutdowns for no reason have been reduced to zero.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-05-2009, 06:49 PM
Pro-Scapes's Avatar
Pro-Scapes Pro-Scapes is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Mississippi
Posts: 4,224
The fuse does have its time and place. ANYTIME I run cable in/on or into a dwelling it gets an inline blade type fuse with the fuse set to the next highest level. On this last job I had a 12ga wire drawing 7a. I installed a 10a blade type fuse knowing that the slightest problem with the wiring will blow it and cause for a service call in which I can make sure all is well and make any needed repairs. This is needed because I am not able to be on every project weekly to make sure someone else doesnt mess up things.

It gives me some peace of mind knowing I protected my clients. Ground mounted circuits are left to be protected by the Magnetics.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-05-2009, 10:24 PM
MAGLIGHTING MAGLIGHTING is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro-Scapes View Post
The fuse does have its time and place. ANYTIME I run cable in/on or into a dwelling it gets an inline blade type fuse with the fuse set to the next highest level. On this last job I had a 12ga wire drawing 7a. I installed a 10a blade type fuse knowing that the slightest problem with the wiring will blow it and cause for a service call in which I can make sure all is well and make any needed repairs. This is needed because I am not able to be on every project weekly to make sure someone else doesnt mess up things.

It gives me some peace of mind knowing I protected my clients. Ground mounted circuits are left to be protected by the Magnetics.

Why no Fustat?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.com™ - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:56 PM.

Page generated in 0.10936 seconds with 8 queries