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  #31  
Old 06-04-2009, 10:38 AM
Marcos Marcos is offline
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Location: Cincinnati OH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prolawnservice View Post
I don't agree whit this at all, I live in a very diverse area(multimillion dollar homes on the ocean that people visit a couple weekend out of the year, to $85,000 bungalows and little ranch homes w/ 3000sqft lawn areas about 2-4 miles inland) and have been selling topdressing to everyone.
Good for you!
Now, come try to sell topdressing to 100% of your prospects in southern Ohio.
That won't happen, Skippy!

In terms of folks being receptive to compost topdressing, much of the eastern seaboard, the South & the left coast are worlds apart from the general attitudes of those in the midwest & the eastern great plains.

Folks will move around the country and exchange ideas, of course.
And there are a few old school remnants, as well as some daring younger people who aren't afraid to go outside of the box, and / or pi&& of their neighbors by doing something radically 'different'!
So... there are exceptions.

But around here, if you were to bring up the topic of 'organic lawn care' in a random conversation somewhere, almost no one would respond back to you that the 1st thing they thought of was... 'compost'.
I've found that most folks around here think of "organics" as processed & (generally) over-priced bagged stuff like Milorganite, Plant-Tone & Holly-Tone.
As far as I know, we are one of only 4 contractors in the Cincy / Dayton area that specialize in rotating applications of protein meals, and I'm fairly certain that at this point in time we're the only one that offers both meals & compost topdressing.

So, we'll ultimately make our sales presentations based upon the customers' early responses, their specific interests, and any concerns they may bring up.
When you factor in the stop charges for returning 4X - 5X a year to apply meals, vs. the cost of labor for topdressing (either 1X or 2X / year, depending upon budget), the stop charges & labor charges pretty much wash.

Meals have typically won out over compost about 75-80% of the time because of the fact that people really like that we'll be back around those extra times to check over the lawn, IPM any stray weeds, check for critters, then meet with the customer & give an update if they desired.
But lately, more & more folks have begun to go with something like a 1X /year (fall) compost, 2X early / late spring meal program.
They are all interchangeable parts.

So...As far as your comment... "maybe some of the best organic salesmen need to brush up on their selling skills"
Bite me!
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  #32  
Old 06-04-2009, 11:14 AM
Marcos Marcos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Prolawn,

You have to understand the people who sell "programs" feel threatened anytime someone suggests alternatives to the program mentality. Heaven forbid someone suggest a 1-2 time per year compost application when the program boys can sell a 5-9 application "program" at a much higher profit margin. Forget about the reasons behind the "organic" movement, forget about building sustainable systems, forget about saving clients money. None of that matters when profit is the only concern.

Same goes for the fert and squirt guys. Suggest alternatives to "traditional" methods that lead to a more healthy soil and plant community (therefore reduce or eliminate the need for ferts and pesticides) and see what you get ..... attacked, ridiculed, labeled, etc.......

People like Marcos have a serious case of tunnel vision, and they attempt to ostracize anyone who doesn't ride on their train. They are best ignored, just as you would an unruly child.
You've have made it your calling card to post whenever some 'other' organic program is being discussed, specifically for the purpose of continued brainwashing with your one-liner:
"Compost does a soil good"

Why, Kiril?
Why must you portray yourself as such a control freak?
Why must you insist that all Lawnsite organic forum readers follow your lead, like you're the Pied Piper of Organics?
Why must you go out of your way to insinuate ON VIRTUALLY EVERY THREAD that you have the ONLY answer, and that all other organic solutions are inferior, as compared to yours?
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  #33  
Old 06-04-2009, 01:54 PM
WannaBeOrganic WannaBeOrganic is offline
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This was a nice quiet thread till I bumped it to make the correction about the type of lime in some of Organica's products.

I was talking to a guy that came over to give me a quote for aeration last fall. All his company did was mow, trim and aerate. Tried to convince me doing anything more like fertilizing or pesticides was a waste of money and dangerous since proper mowing and aerating would build a strong lawn that would take care of everything. Some of you remind me of that guy.

I read this article about if just using compost is enough and they mention a study that using fertilizer and compost is better than compost alone. In the tests they used 1" of compost and still found it beneficial to use fertilizer. So how would a 1/4" topdressing of compost even be enough? Even if it was enough, it seems adding fertilizer would still be better.

Who to trust? University researches or people that are selling a particular method/product?

This is why I gave up looking for lawn care companies and am trying to do it myself and why my friends always seem to change companies frequently.

Came back to turn off the email settings so this nonsense can stop coming into my mailbox.
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  #34  
Old 06-04-2009, 02:22 PM
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JDUtah JDUtah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaBeOrganic View Post
This was a nice quiet thread till I bumped it to make the correction about the type of lime in some of Organica's products.

I was talking to a guy that came over to give me a quote for aeration last fall. All his company did was mow, trim and aerate. Tried to convince me doing anything more like fertilizing or pesticides was a waste of money and dangerous since proper mowing and aerating would build a strong lawn that would take care of everything. Some of you remind me of that guy.

I read this article about if just using compost is enough and they mention a study that using fertilizer and compost is better than compost alone. In the tests they used 1" of compost and still found it beneficial to use fertilizer. So how would a 1/4" topdressing of compost even be enough? Even if it was enough, it seems adding fertilizer would still be better.

Who to trust? University researches or people that are selling a particular method/product?

This is why I gave up looking for lawn care companies and am trying to do it myself and why my friends always seem to change companies frequently.

Came back to turn off the email settings so this nonsense can stop coming into my mailbox.
I find compost blends work best...

I agree that the arguing gets out of hand. I have been a culprit many times.

If only we knew knew everything and were fully mature! lol
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  #35  
Old 06-04-2009, 08:43 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcos View Post
"Compost does a soil good"
Say it again Marcos, make it your mantra.
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  #36  
Old 06-05-2009, 01:05 AM
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ted putnam ted putnam is offline
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[QUOTE=WannaBeOrganic; In the tests they used 1" of compost and still found it beneficial to use fertilizer. So how would a 1/4" topdressing of compost even be enough? Even if it was enough, it seems adding fertilizer would still be better.

Imagine that...
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  #37  
Old 06-05-2009, 01:12 AM
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ted putnam ted putnam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcos View Post
You've have made it your calling card to post whenever some 'other' organic program is being discussed, specifically for the purpose of continued brainwashing with your one-liner:
"Compost does a soil good"

Why, Kiril?
Why must you portray yourself as such a control freak?
Why must you insist that all Lawnsite organic forum readers follow your lead, like you're the Pied Piper of Organics?
Why must you go out of your way to insinuate ON VIRTUALLY EVERY THREAD that you have the ONLY answer, and that all other organic solutions are inferior, as compared to yours?
I'm thinking ginetic mutation but I'd have to see DNA test results to know for sure...
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  #38  
Old 06-05-2009, 07:08 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted putnam View Post
Imagine that...
Imagine this Ted ...... how about NOT managing our landscapes like Ag and sports turf. Did you even read the opinion article?
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  #39  
Old 06-05-2009, 07:37 AM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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Why can't you boys play nice?

Hidden beneath the needless chest thumping you all have good information to share. Do a better job of controlling your testosterone, please. Otherwise, you're just boring.
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The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself.
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  #40  
Old 06-05-2009, 07:40 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
Why can't you boys play nice?
I agree Barry. As usual, I get attacked for posting my thoughts. Heck, this time I didn't even have to bring up my opposition to feed grain fertilizers.
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