Register free!
Search
 
     

Click for Weather
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #71  
Old 06-07-2009, 06:43 AM
growingdeeprootsorganicly growingdeeprootsorganicly is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: obamaland
Posts: 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
30 years, 40 clients? This must be a hobby for you.
40 mile round trips and no help can make that so
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 06-07-2009, 08:43 AM
dishboy dishboy is offline
LawnSite Gold Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: zone 6
Posts: 3,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
30 years, 40 clients? This must be a hobby for you.
I guess the Fertilization is a hobby but mowing 10 lawns a day four days a week plus full maintenance with pruning and bed maintenance on some contracts hardly makes it a hobby. Gone are the days of working on the weekend except for equipment maintenance.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 06-07-2009, 08:55 AM
dishboy dishboy is offline
LawnSite Gold Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: zone 6
Posts: 3,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by NattyLawn View Post
Who said you're applying 1 yard per k? Sorry Dishboy, I forgot you need everything spelled out for you. How was I to know you only have 40 accounts making the Eco-lawn not a good choice for you? You're the one who mentioned it then cut it down....A lot of people on here are looking for answers, then the get some comments, then cut down the people trying to help by adding more questions based on facts that were never mentioned. Then the same whiners wonder why no one helps on here anymore.

I said it before JD has a great idea doing what he does. Customizable compost applications. If you have the time/space it should work well.
Is not 1/4 " of compost work out to 1100 sq. ft. a yard? I believe that was Kirls numbers.

In the future I will be sure to write a book as to to specifics as to my operation when I ask a question. I thought I asked the question to Kiril, and it was not how to figure my cost, it was what is the market price of applying compost at 1/4 inch

Feel free to put me on ignore I will not be offended.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 06-07-2009, 08:59 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: District 9 CA
Posts: 18,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by dishboy View Post
Bulk pricing on my organic materials in a four application program with the final application being twice the rate comes in at $9.37 K and and about 10 minutes time per K on the season. How does Compost compare in your area for annual cost/ labor time per K.

I wish I could afford a ECO spreader and could do it your way but having to make a $7000.00 purchase and make a separate 40 mile round trip for every yard pushes overhead and final cost to the customer out what most are willing to pay. What do you charge to compost a 4K yard at 1/4" , maybe my perception of pricing is way off for this service.
DB, a yard of material is a yard of material. Time is not a factor here. How much does it cost you for a yard of material?
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 06-07-2009, 09:09 AM
NattyLawn NattyLawn is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 1,648
Quote:
Originally Posted by dishboy View Post

Feel free to put me on ignore I will not be offended.
Done deal.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 06-07-2009, 09:11 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: District 9 CA
Posts: 18,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaBeOrganic View Post
I appreciate your answers regarding compost. I found them helpful but you haven't shown that compost alone can fertilize a lawn. Maybe that's not the point you're trying to make, but it's the only way your arguments are relative in this discussion.
Here are some test results on compost. You tell me if it is enough because I don't know what type of soil you are dealing with.

http://southoldtown.northfork.net/La...s%20Report.pdf

http://www.wlssd.com/documents/gardengreen2007.pdf

http://www.loudouncomposting.com/upl...e_analysis.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaBeOrganic View Post
My impression of the program is that it seems to make sense for it's intended purpose. Synthetically treated lawns are likely to be lacking the microorganisms that are necessary to to break down organic material and fertilizers in a way the lawn needs. By providing the microorganisms in their fertilizer and soil conditioner they help repopulate the soil. That seems to make sense to me.
The microorganisms are already there. Provide a source of food and proper living conditions and they will do what they do. There are cases where you may want to kick start a system, but if you don't expect more out of your system then it can provide naturally, you don't need all that crap. People need to stop treating their landscapes like Ag and sports turf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaBeOrganic View Post
Like I said, it sounds great, but now on 7 pages and we haven't really discussed whether this could be a beneficial part of a good organic lawn care program or not. Just arguments about how compost is necessary to build good soil structure which you don't understand isn't what this program is about.
But you see, that IS part of what an organic "program" is about, building soil structure. Will the stuff work .... probably .... is 2 out of the 3 steps necessary .... IMHO they are not.

Last edited by Kiril; 06-07-2009 at 09:19 AM. Reason: corrected wrong link
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 06-07-2009, 11:52 AM
WannaBeOrganic WannaBeOrganic is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
The microorganisms are already there. Provide a source of food and proper living conditions and they will do what they do. There are cases where you may want to kick start a system, but if you don't expect more out of your system then it can provide naturally, you don't need all that crap.
Maybe 2 years ago I ran across a video when I was trying to learn about organic lawn care. I think it was on safelawns.org. It showed to sets of soils under microscopic magnification. One from an organic lawn, the other from a synthetically managed lawn. The synthetic soil had virtually no microorganisms. When I helped someone dig in their yard, we didn't run across a single earthworm. They have a lawn service spray fertilizers and pesticides regularly. In my yard, it feels like I can't even pull a weed without seeing one squirm around.

Quote:
People need to stop treating their landscapes like Ag and sports turf.
You know that's not going to happen. At least not anytime soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
But you see, that IS part of what an organic "program" is about, building soil structure. Will the stuff work .... probably .... is 2 out of the 3 steps necessary .... IMHO they are not.
I still think you are putting too much weight on the word program. It's just marketing for consumers that are used to the term. The program doesn't cut your lawn or water it either. It's just meant to be a part of your lawn management, not the entirety of it.

A lot of people seem to think kelp has benefits and people go to great lengths and sometimes expense to brew compost tea to introduce more microorganisms.

Out of all the consumer programs I've seen, this one seems to be the most interesting. I'm not buying into the program but the individual products look good where appropriate.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 06-07-2009, 12:04 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: District 9 CA
Posts: 18,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaBeOrganic View Post
Maybe 2 years ago I ran across a video when I was trying to learn about organic lawn care. I think it was on safelawns.org. It showed to sets of soils under microscopic magnification. One from an organic lawn, the other from a synthetically managed lawn. The synthetic soil had virtually no microorganisms. When I helped someone dig in their yard, we didn't run across a single earthworm. They have a lawn service spray fertilizers and pesticides regularly. In my yard, it feels like I can't even pull a weed without seeing one squirm around.
Then perform your own experiment. Pick a "dead" area and do nothing more than add compost to it. Monitor the microbial activity over time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaBeOrganic View Post
You know that's not going to happen. At least not anytime soon.
I beg to differ. With water resources becoming increasingly scarce in many areas of the country, people are being forced to rethink what they plant and how they maintain it. It makes absolutely no sense to push a landscape beyond what the site can provide for naturally. Regionally appropriate landscapes are not going to be an option in the near future, but rather a necessity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaBeOrganic View Post
A lot of people seem to think kelp has benefits and people go to great lengths and sometimes expense to brew compost tea to introduce more microorganisms.
There are very good reasons for CT in high production systems, however I am less convinced on its value in your typical landscape. As far as kelp is concerned, don't see much of that in a natural terrestrial system, so why is it needed?
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 06-07-2009, 11:09 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaBeOrganic View Post
.... The synthetic soil had virtually no microorganisms. ....
Big surprise... Synthetic NPK = Soluable NPK... Need Micros for that?... Hydroponics... Need micros for that?... Does NPK in soluable form - feed microbes???

What is it about microbes - that makes one think that they don't need food, shelter and clothing??? ... Just like every other 'Living' thing on the planet... including us???...

Oh... that's right... in America we only need Cable TV and high speed internet... We don't need food , shelter, or clothing...

I doubt that there are a lot of microbes in my potted plants in the window for 6 months of the winter... What does this mean???
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 06-09-2009, 08:02 PM
Marcos Marcos is offline
LawnSite Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 3,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaBeOrganic View Post
Kiril,

I appreciate your answers regarding compost. I found them helpful but you haven't shown that compost alone can fertilize a lawn. Maybe that's not the point you're trying to make, but it's the only way your arguments are relative in this discussion.
For the lion's share of folks around here (at least), it's not.

When all you're expecting out of your lawn(s) is generally a so-so cast of green, and you're O.K. with a little understory crop of white clover, etc growing within your turf, a 1X / year program using compost is just what the doctor ordered.
Otherwise, if weeds are indeed the ultimate concern, the turf had better be pretty durn thick to start with!!

The bar of expectation with the customer is placed on vastly different points, depending upon the insistence of the customer, in conjunction with the depth of their pockets.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:05 AM.

Page generated in 0.13028 seconds with 7 queries