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  #11  
Old 04-25-2009, 09:08 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepGreenLawn View Post
True, very true, and I agree completely YET there are still customer expectations out there.

As I said before too... I only use the high N to get a kick start... not continually, if I have a lawn that is way behind on ferts then I don't see much of a choice at the beginning unless we want a crappy looking lawn for a few years and after a few months customers get tired of paying for a crappy looking yard no matter how well you manage their expectations. Especially here where organics is a new concept and I am the "pioneer" as all other "organic" companies apparently are frauds from what my customers are telling me... me not all but the major majority. I have yet to find a true organic company other than my own and neither have my customers. I am not 100% organic but my customers understand that and I make it very clear the reasons I use synthetics. They still appreciate the truthfulness and understand. They are just happy that I am even working toward and organic program...
Yes, that is all true and have the same problems at times. My concern is why mess with the compost? The compost should do its job in the soil naturally without being altered by massive urea inputs b4 it is applied to soil.
When I need more N that I can't get quickly enough from natural sources I just used a cheap bag of synthetic 46-0-0 slow release.

Any applications of compost need to be used as compost applications not as super-boosters of N. IMO.
The important question to me is: "Does altered compost effect the soil structure changes we have come to expect from compost?"

Compost is NOT a fertilizer pre se, it is best as a soil conditioner, balancer, microbe feed, soil structure builder, CE site provider and slow release fert, in my view, but I could be wrong. That is why I raise the questions that may be overlooked.
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  #12  
Old 04-25-2009, 09:17 AM
dishboy dishboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Yes, that is all true and have the same problems at times. My concern is why mess with the compost? The compost should do its job in the soil naturally without being altered by massive urea inputs b4 it is applied to soil.
When I need more N that I can't get quickly enough from natural sources I just used a cheap bag of synthetic 46-0-0 slow release.

Any applications of compost need to be used as compost applications not as super-boosters of N. IMO.
The important question to me is: "Does altered compost effect the soil structure changes we have come to expect from compost?"

Compost is NOT a fertilizer pre se, it is best as a soil conditioner, balancer, microbe feed, soil structure builder, CE site provider and slow release fert, in my view, but I could be wrong. That is why I raise the questions that may be overlooked.
I also wonder how a urea/compost mix could possibly be spread in a even enough manner to have a uniform greening?
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  #13  
Old 04-25-2009, 09:44 AM
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terrapro terrapro is offline
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You only apply about half a ton compost per acre?

25lbs per k is what you said in your post. Is this for maintenance or initial app? Maybe at 25lbs per 100sqft would be more effective, that would give you an 1/8 ton per k.
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  #14  
Old 04-25-2009, 11:55 AM
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JDUtah JDUtah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dishboy View Post
.69 lbs of N from urea + compost per K. in the spring. I am glad I don't mow your lawns as you are in the Chemlawn N rate area for a spring application. What kind of growth are you seeing?
They are growing steadily. Less than an inch per week. Gotta remember that most (like 90%) of the N in the compost is non soluble, so as far as N growth, it is seeing .69 lbs N.

I am balancing the two.. university studies... and customer expectations.
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  #15  
Old 04-25-2009, 11:58 AM
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JDUtah JDUtah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Adequate N seems natural and healthy to me. High N seems we are back in the synthetic mindset and we are producing blades at the expense of the overall health and wellbeing of the plant and the soil.
Again, I am balancing customer expectations with healthy systems. Remember I am new this year. A LOT of the customers I have picked up called me because their lawn wasn't greening up like the neighbors. They wanted it green, and fast.

Over time I will get it rolling on its own.. but I am hunting for a referral/testimonial system now, and will use what I have to to get the lawn to perform.
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  #16  
Old 04-25-2009, 12:01 PM
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JDUtah JDUtah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Problem is with your situation you will NEVER know exactly what you are putting down.
I understand that, but you must admit, I am doing better than the guy that doesn't care at all, and just throws whatever down as long as does (or even doesn't) get the lawn green.

"Do not let what you can't do stop you from doing what you can do"
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  #17  
Old 04-25-2009, 12:07 PM
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JDUtah JDUtah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Yes, that is all true and have the same problems at times. My concern is why mess with the compost? The compost should do its job in the soil naturally without being altered by massive urea inputs b4 it is applied to soil.
When I need more N that I can't get quickly enough from natural sources I just used a cheap bag of synthetic 46-0-0 slow release.

Any applications of compost need to be used as compost applications not as super-boosters of N. IMO.
The important question to me is: "Does altered compost effect the soil structure changes we have come to expect from compost?"

Compost is NOT a fertilizer pre se, it is best as a soil conditioner, balancer, microbe feed, soil structure builder, CE site provider and slow release fert, in my view, but I could be wrong. That is why I raise the questions that may be overlooked.
I see compost blends as a very effective form of fertilizing. Not only are you adding the mineral N, you are adding the CE sites with it, and the microbes that will pull the N right into the soil food web... and by pre mixing, you are maximizing the quantity of ions attached to the OM... and by premixing, your applicators (who get paid more than the shop tech) are spending less time on the property... etc.

If it compost/fert mixing wasn't an effective way of doing it, Barry would not be getting such rave reviews with his stuff from the guys in the chem forum.

Also remember, I plan on using blood meals, etc over the urea... but for now urea is my supply.
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  #18  
Old 04-25-2009, 12:17 PM
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JDUtah JDUtah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrapro View Post
You only apply about half a ton compost per acre?

25lbs per k is what you said in your post. Is this for maintenance or initial app? Maybe at 25lbs per 100sqft would be more effective, that would give you an 1/8 ton per k.
Yes, 25 lbs dry per K... is my goal. This equates to 40 lbs of actual compost per K.

There are reasons that I apply at my rate.
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  #19  
Old 04-25-2009, 12:18 PM
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JDUtah JDUtah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dishboy View Post
I also wonder how a urea/compost mix could possibly be spread in a even enough manner to have a uniform greening?
So far so good
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  #20  
Old 04-25-2009, 12:20 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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That is 6 posts in a row .... you are banned for 1 day.

40 lbs at what % moisture?
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