Register free!
Search
 
     

Click for Weather
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 05-04-2009, 02:17 PM
betmr betmr is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Piscataway, NJ
Posts: 1,663
Mr. Chistian Bros. In my State we are regulated not by the EPA, but by the NJDEP, New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection. So I would'nt say that your EPA exemptions apply for sure. Every State has the right, and is responsible for setting these standards. You need to check with your State regulatory agency before you start assuming that your Organic methods are exempt from regulations. Organics are not the fail-safe you seem to profess, in fact they can prove to be quite toxic, I give for example the dilemma facing farmers today in spreading manure, you would agree that manure is Organic ? No Argument here, just don't assume that your way, is in no way, Regulated.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-04-2009, 02:34 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: District 9 CA
Posts: 18,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by betmr View Post
Organics are not the fail-safe you seem to profess, in fact they can prove to be quite toxic, I give for example the dilemma facing farmers today in spreading manure, you would agree that manure is Organic ?
No argument here, but would you care to go into detail concerning this "dilemma" and these other "quite toxic" organics?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-04-2009, 03:15 PM
betmr betmr is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Piscataway, NJ
Posts: 1,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
No argument here, but would you care to go into detail concerning this "dilemma" and these other "quite toxic" organics?
Well right up front, I understand that the Chesapeake Bay and a number of it's Tributaries are quite polluted with Animal waste. I come from Upstate NY, Dairy Country, Large amounts of Salmonella are showing up in the waterways up there, supposedly from Animal waste, attributed to spreading Manure on Crop fields.

I am not going to suggest that I am an expert, so I don't know the Toxicity of all things, but I'm sure there are plenty of Organics that miss used can be quite Toxic. And as a Licensed Pesticide applicator, I feel that my handling and application of the products I use is quite safe.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-04-2009, 06:41 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: District 9 CA
Posts: 18,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by betmr View Post
Well right up front, I understand that the Chesapeake Bay and a number of it's Tributaries are quite polluted with Animal waste.
Like dogs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by betmr View Post
I come from Upstate NY, Dairy Country, Large amounts of Salmonella are showing up in the waterways up there, supposedly from Animal waste, attributed to spreading Manure on Crop fields.
And this is coming from where? Large scale animal production facilities disposing their raw waste in lagoons and nearby fields. What does this have to do with using a composted manure as an organic amendment & nutrient source for landscapes, or even a raw manure at agronomic rates for crop use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by betmr View Post
I am not going to suggest that I am an expert, so I don't know the Toxicity of all things, but I'm sure there are plenty of Organics that miss used can be quite Toxic.
Once again, which ones and how? I want some some reasonable examples of products typically used in landscapes, since that is what we are talking about here. You are now the second or third person who has implied (or directly stated) organics is as bad or worse than synthetics.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-04-2009, 07:48 PM
LushGreenLawn's Avatar
LushGreenLawn LushGreenLawn is offline
LawnSite Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Dover, DE
Posts: 2,123
If you apply too much of any nutrient, synthetic or organic, it will leach into waterways. In that regard, organics can be just as bad as synthetics.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-04-2009, 08:21 PM
lilmarvin4064's Avatar
lilmarvin4064 lilmarvin4064 is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: transition-zone
Posts: 746
1) concentrated acetic acid (vinegar) an organic herbicide, can cause blindness if accidentally splashed in the eyes.

2) From my research "leaves" and other organic material left on pavement and washed into storm drains contributes to more significant Phosphate runoff in waste water than properly applied synthetic fertilizers.

3) IMO, some of the newer synthetic herbicides, such as carfentrazone-ethyl and mesotrione are less dangerous than working with the "organic" alternatives.

Ignorance breeds Fear; Fear breeds chemophobes!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-04-2009, 11:10 PM
ted putnam's Avatar
ted putnam ted putnam is online now
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 4,136
In my state we have what is called a "Commercial Applicators License". Anyone in the weed control and fertilization business is required to have it.
Commercial- something done for others for financial gain
Applicator- A person who applies products
License- a required permit
They don't specify whether it is organic or not. Simply put...if you apply anything to anyones lawn other than your own for financial gain you must have the required license. Black and white- no grey area.

Back to your original question. If I were you, I would fertilize in a dry form and my weed controls would be liquid. This will offer the best all around performance for you and your customers... whose lawns you are applying products to for financial gain...without a license
__________________
"The Poor Fish" circa 1930's: The Poor Fish wouldn't have been caught if he'd known enough to keep his fool mouth shut.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-05-2009, 12:23 AM
Christian Brothers Christian Brothers is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Humboldt, TN
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by ted putnam View Post
In my state we have what is called a "Commercial Applicators License". Anyone in the weed control and fertilization business is required to have it.
Commercial- something done for others for financial gain
Applicator- A person who applies products
License- a required permit
They don't specify whether it is organic or not. Simply put...if you apply anything to anyones lawn other than your own for financial gain you must have the required license. Black and white- no grey area.

Back to your original question. If I were you, I would fertilize in a dry form and my weed controls would be liquid. This will offer the best all around performance for you and your customers... whose lawns you are applying products to for financial gain...without a license
despite the sarcasm in the last sentence i think this is the best professional answer i've got so far to the original post. the initial reason for a license not required in this state is because i e-mailed a professor at the university of tennessee who has a ph.d and is department coordinator of entomology and plant pathology. what he said was " you need a license if you apply a herbicide and charge a fee." then i asked him even if it was chemical free then he said, " the weed control would have to be on the EPA 25b exempt list, otherwise a license would be needed. " now i dont know if in between e-mails he forgot that i was making financial gain on it or not. so i thank you for bringing that to my attention. i'v neglected the fact that it was for financial gain so i need to check into that for this state. as for the original post answer thanks for the advice. i didnt care who used what i just needed some advice. i've found a website that has a 16-4-8 liquid fertilizer and burnout ll as a weed control. they aslso have a liquid dethatcher, aerify, and soil activator and they have a way you can mix them all together and its a one time do it everything application for in the fall when you want to dethatch, aerify, overseed, fertilize. i dont think i would mix them all together but it sounds cool anyway. what do you think about all that, professionally?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-05-2009, 07:31 AM
betmr betmr is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Piscataway, NJ
Posts: 1,663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Brothers View Post
despite the sarcasm in the last sentence i think this is the best professional answer i've got so far to the original post. the initial reason for a license not required in this state is because i e-mailed a professor at the university of tennessee who has a ph.d and is department coordinator of entomology and plant pathology. what he said was " you need a license if you apply a herbicide and charge a fee." then i asked him even if it was chemical free then he said, " the weed control would have to be on the EPA 25b exempt list, otherwise a license would be needed. " now i dont know if in between e-mails he forgot that i was making financial gain on it or not. so i thank you for bringing that to my attention. i'v neglected the fact that it was for financial gain so i need to check into that for this state. as for the original post answer thanks for the advice. i didnt care who used what i just needed some advice. i've found a website that has a 16-4-8 liquid fertilizer and burnout ll as a weed control. they aslso have a liquid dethatcher, aerify, and soil activator and they have a way you can mix them all together and its a one time do it everything application for in the fall when you want to dethatch, aerify, overseed, fertilize. i dont think i would mix them all together but it sounds cool anyway. what do you think about all that, professionally?
A liquid that makes thatch go away, and opens up the soil for oxygen penetration?? My opinion...Snake oil, but it's yours & your customers money not mine. Oh, and I don't think it was Dogs, I believe it's Chickens, Horses, and Cattle

Personally I think you would be better received in the organic lawn care forum. Organic is nice, but I don't think it will feed the world.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05-05-2009, 08:11 AM
foreplease's Avatar
foreplease foreplease is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: St. Joseph, MI
Posts: 1,218
Quote:
Originally Posted by betmr View Post
A liquid that makes thatch go away, and opens up the soil for oxygen penetration?? My opinion...Snake oil...
Agreed. Recently discussed here.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fertilizer , granular , herbicide , liquid , weed and feed

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:07 AM.

Page generated in 0.11680 seconds with 7 queries