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  #41  
Old 06-24-2009, 09:04 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaBeOrganic View Post
That article was about gardening and not lawn care so it is possible that bone meal would have been used at the time of planting or as an amendment that was thoroughly mixed into the soil.

It also didn't provide a high level of detail. It would be nice to know at exactly what level of P does grass work on root growth and when it attracts mycchorziae.

Also, is there some type of balance where you can get both. Mycchorziae colonization can help plants absorb water and nutrients better but is it sometimes better to have deeper roots instead? During the summer where you have greater evaporation of water from the soil, which one is better?

Mycchorizae help with disease resistance as well but there are other ways to accomplish that.

I haven't really had the time to look into much of this yet, maybe others have the answers to these questions. So weather you need to buy and add P is unknown to me but it seems clear that you don't need to inoculate the soil mycchorizae unless it doesn't contain any, which seems unlikely especially if the soil is organically managed. If the plants need mycchorizae they will attract and feed them which will cause them to multiply.
Gardening... sorry
Mycors don't really apply to most annuals anyways because there is not enough time for them to establish.
However there was a report that they were getting results with innoculated field corn.
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
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  #42  
Old 06-24-2009, 09:51 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
My point was that if you apply P to the surface and it is bound to the soil at the surface, that is where it is going to stay. Those soil particles must be physically moved - in order for the P that is attached to them to move. No leaching possible.
N, of course just washes freely through the soil without much bonding at all. Especially with sand.
Anything in solution has the potential to leach. Now the chances for P to move out of the effective root zone before it precipitates out of solution or is adsorbed is relatively low, but naturally depends on the soil, soil structure, and associated chemical properties. P can and does leach.
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  #43  
Old 06-24-2009, 10:15 AM
MrC MrC is offline
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Yes lets bring this back. I put down Ringers because it was recommended by several neighbors and their lawns look pretty good. I'm mulching the grass and leaves. I'm holding off on compost because I can't find it in bulk and bagged is really expensive. What else can I do to help my lawn before the hot summer? Kelp? Liquid ferts?
Thanks again for all the help!!!
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  #44  
Old 06-24-2009, 10:29 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrC View Post
Yes lets bring this back. I put down Ringers because it was recommended by several neighbors and their lawns look pretty good. I'm mulching the grass and leaves. I'm holding off on compost because I can't find it in bulk and bagged is really expensive. What else can I do to help my lawn before the hot summer? Kelp? Liquid ferts?
Thanks again for all the help!!!
Warm or cool season turf?
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  #45  
Old 06-24-2009, 12:23 PM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Warm or cool season turf?
He is in Jersey so probably fescue and maybe some KBG mixed in
You don't need a lot of compost if you can't handle it, you can use a small amount just do it several times a year
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  #46  
Old 06-24-2009, 01:04 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICT Bill View Post
He is in Jersey so probably fescue and maybe some KBG mixed in
You don't need a lot of compost if you can't handle it, you can use a small amount just do it several times a year
If that is the case, then probably wouldn't do much of anything, assuming the turf is heading into partial dormancy.
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  #47  
Old 06-24-2009, 03:05 PM
drugrep drugrep is offline
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WBO,

It take 18 pounds of P per acre to raise by 1 ppm. I converted that to pounds per 1,000 sq ft.

I basically need to use starter 4 times per year for 3 years to get me up to 40 ppm.

I'm going to test at least once a year to see what's going on and see if I am having any impact.

I shouldn't have P locked up too bad, it locks up worse in low pH where it binds with Al, but in high pH, it starts binding with Ca, but still very soluble.
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  #48  
Old 06-24-2009, 03:48 PM
WannaBeOrganic WannaBeOrganic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pristine1 View Post
I would like to think that most people are intelligent enough to check other sources for information before putting things into practice.
I think it's fair to ask that if someone sells or manufacturers a product and recommends or otherwise makes a claim about it, they should be able to provide information to back it up when requested if that claim can't easily be verified. Just my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrC
What else can I do to help my lawn before the hot summer? Kelp? Liquid ferts?
I've been reading good things about kelp for helping with various types of stress and recommendations to use it before summer. I decided to try a liquid fertilizer that contains kelp this summer to see how it works. If you're putting down Ringer Lawn Restore now you won't need to fertilize for a while so plain kelp is probably better for you if you want to try it. Lots of stuff online about kelp.

Mind if I ask where you got the Ringer?
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"turf is not sustainable, hence the reason why I strongly promote getting rid of it." - Kiril 1/14/2009
Is this what people paying for lawn service want?
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  #49  
Old 06-24-2009, 04:50 PM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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Kelp is a winner. I add it along with fish hydrolysate and humic acid to all my liquid applications.
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The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself.
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  #50  
Old 06-24-2009, 05:44 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaBeOrganic View Post
I've been reading good things about kelp for helping with various types of stress and recommendations to use it before summer. I decided to try a liquid fertilizer that contains kelp this summer to see how it works. If you're putting down Ringer Lawn Restore now you won't need to fertilize for a while so plain kelp is probably better for you if you want to try it. Lots of stuff online about kelp.
Like this one, from the same author as your referenced source on bone meal?

The Myth of Curative Kelp
Conclusions from researchers

1) Plant selection: “…working with resistant varieties seems to be the best solution [to disease
resistance].”

2) Environmental conditions: “…soil fertility and production conditions were more important growth
and yield determinants than were foliar sprays.”

3) Management techniques: “If proper planting techniques are followed, the use of biostimulants is
unwarranted.”

4) Overall assessment: “…treatments are ultimately dependent on multiple plant, soil, and
environmental factors, and often have no discernible effects.” “…there appears to be little value in
applying these products.”

5) Marketing: “Manufacturers’ claims for the benefits of these products go beyond what is
substantiated by the research.” “The number of products now on the market seems to outnumber the
published papers.”

These researchers’ conclusions say it all – seaweed extracts are aggressively marketed with little regard
for objective, scientific research. There is a final concern never addressed, which is the justification for
large-scale removal of vegetation from one ecosystem (the marine kelp “forests”) for application to
another (terrestrial landscapes). The ecological impacts of increased seaweed harvesting are currently
under investigation and the possibility of significant ecosystem damage is real. There is no argument that
seaweed products are useful and valuable to humans for the reasons discussed earlier. However, given
that there are few documented benefits from applying seaweed extracts to plants, this is not a justifiable
nor sustainable practice. The marketing of such products as “earth friendly” in this context should be
repugnant to environmentally conscious consumers.

Last edited by Kiril; 06-24-2009 at 05:48 PM.
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