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  #1  
Old 08-01-2009, 03:32 PM
dishboy dishboy is offline
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50lbs Humagreen equals 2000lbs compost.

Shale ore product has big marketing claims.
http://www.zamzows.com/Lawn_and_Gard...ns/Huma_Green/

http://zamzowsonline.com/65620598524.html
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  #2  
Old 08-01-2009, 04:54 PM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dishboy View Post
The humic/humate boys have made those types of claims for a long time, it does everything, all of the time for everything. It makes it much harder for products to get excepted in the pipeline easier

I do know that 10 or 12 years ago it was all the rage in golf courses, after a couple years of using it you begin to see deminished returns. In the NE Golf courses they put it down before the ground freezes to sequester nitrogen for places with snow mold issues, it seems to work great

Its almost coal, big deal
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Old 08-01-2009, 06:02 PM
dishboy dishboy is offline
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Originally Posted by ICT Bill View Post

Its almost coal, big deal
That's par for the course as the rest of the program is "almost" Natural, reported to protect the environment, and "contains slow release N". Nothing wrong with bridge products IMO but the advertising conveys otherwise. 20 X X is not natural .
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Old 08-02-2009, 03:54 PM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
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Ingredients: Humic Shale Or containing 45% Humic Acids, Ammonium sulfate and naturally derived iron hematite.

I can't find any NPK statement, no idea how much N is in it. At $9.98 per 1000 sq ft it certainly has a high price point and that is without shipping cost
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  #5  
Old 08-02-2009, 10:31 PM
NattyLawn NattyLawn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICT Bill View Post
The humic/humate boys have made those types of claims for a long time, it does everything, all of the time for everything. It makes it much harder for products to get excepted in the pipeline easier

I do know that 10 or 12 years ago it was all the rage in golf courses, after a couple years of using it you begin to see deminished returns. In the NE Golf courses they put it down before the ground freezes to sequester nitrogen for places with snow mold issues, it seems to work great

Its almost coal, big deal
Organic Approach makes a similar product called HumAmend that's raw leonardite coated with a soluble humate. Now, the HumaGreen make the claim that applying a bag of 45% humic shale equals a ton of compost...Wow...The shale is insoluble, so the green up is coming from the ammonium sulfate and the iron hematite. I guess that's also the reason why they stress to apply the product evenly throughout the lawn. A normal humate product wouldn't have to deal with any striping issues. You get the instant green up, followed by the sustained green when the leonardite breaks down. Is it natural? I guess, but the ammonium sulfate's analysis is 21-0-0....Hardly organic N.

And Bill, the HumAmend can't beat .67 cents per thousand. But if you would like to do a side by side with 1-2-3 Tea, let me know and I'll do it.
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  #6  
Old 08-02-2009, 11:39 PM
dishboy dishboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICT Bill View Post
Ingredients: Humic Shale Or containing 45% Humic Acids, Ammonium sulfate and naturally derived iron hematite.

I can't find any NPK statement, no idea how much N is in it. At $9.98 per 1000 sq ft it certainly has a high price point and that is without shipping cost
Humagren is 3-0-0
The spring/summer http://zamzowsonline.com/49999801600.html is 20-3-3 , with Urea up front and cottonseed meal. Pretty slick advertising" It contains slow release ingredients and vital trace minerals." They sell the heck out of this program here and everyone I ever talked to who has used it thought this was a natural product and was unaware it contains urea.

Anybody have a opinion on dicalcium phosphate, new term for me.
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  #7  
Old 08-02-2009, 11:51 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Humates supposedly work differently than regular synthetic ferts. If this is a contest between N in one form over N in another form, then I have one question:

What is the benefit of one N over another and why is it worth the extra money???

The real issues never come to the forefront in these claims. Humates are no more magic than char but the benefits are more long term for various reasons.

However, those points are not clear so it only makes sense that - from this discussion - we should just pick up some 46-0-0 slow release, for 20 bucks, and be done with it...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #8  
Old 08-03-2009, 12:41 AM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NattyLawn View Post

And Bill, the HumAmend can't beat .67 cents per thousand. But if you would like to do a side by side with 1-2-3 Tea, let me know and I'll do it.
Apples and oranges
solid and liquid, different application rates. different products

What I would like to see is folks reducing their costs for these things, how about Humamend in the spring and fall and compost teas in between

If you look at any large scale (over $1 miilion per year) landscape operation that is organic, they use organic matter for sure in the fall, sometimes (new customers) in the spring and compost teas in between

It just makes too much sense and it works, it is cost effective and the customers are crazy about it

I'll send you the University of Rhode Island testing information, toe to toe with heavy duty synthetic fert's, same color, no difference
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  #9  
Old 08-03-2009, 08:11 AM
growingdeeprootsorganicly growingdeeprootsorganicly is offline
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ahhh, toe tee toe did you say...?

why don't you post that data here?
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  #10  
Old 08-04-2009, 10:07 AM
NattyLawn NattyLawn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICT Bill View Post
Apples and oranges
solid and liquid, different application rates. different products

What I would like to see is folks reducing their costs for these things, how about Humamend in the spring and fall and compost teas in between

If you look at any large scale (over $1 miilion per year) landscape operation that is organic, they use organic matter for sure in the fall, sometimes (new customers) in the spring and compost teas in between

It just makes too much sense and it works, it is cost effective and the customers are crazy about it

I'll send you the University of Rhode Island testing information, toe to toe with heavy duty synthetic fert's, same color, no difference
True, it's not apples to apples, but another tool in the toolbox. HumAmend alone is not a standalone product. Like you said, it wouldn't be cost effective. I typically apply at this time of year.
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