Pump Start relay

[Dripit good]

Originally Posted by Kiril

See, this is the problem. You cannot compare a lighting or a receptacle load to a pump load. This is the reason why the NEC has two different sections, one for pumps, one for general circuits. Boots is trying to define the problem using logic that relates to general circuits, not pump circuits.

I suppose.

It's another great debate that I think can be argued both ways....with neither being really "wrong".

I'm still trying to figure out if Boots is your Kryptonite, or you are his Kryptonite.

[Wet_Boots]

The load does not determine the requirements for the fixed wiring following a circuit breaker (with the possible exception of an arc welder)

At some point, you leave the fixed wiring, and enter the load wiring. For a pump, the transition point could be a disconnect box. The cord for a table lamp doesn't have to be rated for 15 amps, since it is not a part of the fixed wiring in a 15 amp circuit.

[Kiril]

Originally Posted by Wet_Boots

Kiril fails to understand that a motor and its protection is an add-on to an existing branch circuit, and that the branch circuit has its own rules.

So tell me Boots, what if the branch circuit "breaker" cannot support the startup load of a pump? You still going to maintain they are separate. The branch circuit needs to be designed with consideration for the pump requirements (NEC Article 430 Parts 2-5, in particular part 4). This is why Article 240 defers to Article 430 when pumps are involved.

[Kiril]

Originally Posted by Dripit good

I suppose.

It's another great debate that I think can be argued both ways....with neither being really "wrong".

Whatever NEC Article 430 dictates is "right", regardless of what anyone states here. Boots can argue this till he is blue in the face, but at the end of the day, that code is what the OP will need to comply to.

[Dripit good]

Originally Posted by Kiril

but at the end of the day, that code is what the OP will need to comply to.

Very true.

However, once he is notified it is beyond our responsibility or authority.

Default the issue to the electrician.

[Kiril]

Yes, call a qualified electrician.

More reading for Boots so he can understand.

http://books.google.com/books?id=im1...ots=78zf52vEd4

[Waterit]

::::I think Kiril and Boots should face off in a steel-cage death match, refereed by ML::::

[Dripit good]

Originally Posted by Waterit

::::I think Kiril and Boots should face off in a steel-cage death match, refereed by ML::::

It would be worth every penny ~ as it will last a LONG time!

[Mike Leary]

:::::::even in death, it would never end::::::::

[Wet_Boots]

Originally Posted by Kiril

So tell me Boots, what if the branch circuit "breaker" cannot support the startup load of a pump? You still going to maintain they are separate. The branch circuit needs to be designed with consideration for the pump requirements (NEC Article 430 Parts 2-5, in particular part 4). This is why Article 240 defers to Article 430 when pumps are involved.

The branch circuit is a standalone entity. At some point, be it a receptacle or a disconnect, a load is connected. Obviously, it would be a good thing if the branch can supply the load. But the starting surge of a connected motor would never give you permission to remove the existing branch circuit breaker and replace it with a higher-rated one.

Getting back to the OP's claim of a 30 amp 120 volt branch circuit, how many 30 amp 120 volt receptacles do you ever see?