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  #21  
Old 09-17-2009, 08:52 PM
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FYS777 FYS777 is offline
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i am starting to move into top-dressing lawns more every year, it is like a miracle drug for lawns. like some have said fall or spring.
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  #22  
Old 09-18-2009, 12:54 AM
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JDUtah JDUtah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by americanlawn View Post
I did not know that spreading compost on the surface would provide any benefit whatsoever. I always thought it needed to be incorporated into the soil profile to do any good. Am I missing something? Thanks.
Compost has many minerals, and organic compounds, that are soluble and thus mobile in the soil. The benefits of these can be seen within a couple weeks.

The insoluble compounds make their way down in the soil via a diversity of mechanisms, or should I say organisms...

Plus a 1/4" topdressing puts down a TON more plant available NPK and micros than the save the planet peeps like to admit....
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  #23  
Old 09-18-2009, 01:08 AM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDUtah View Post
Compost has many minerals, and organic compounds, that are soluble and thus mobile in the soil. The benefits of these can be seen within a couple weeks.

The insoluble compounds make their way down in the soil via a diversity of mechanisms, or should I say organisms...

Plus a 1/4" topdressing puts down a TON more plant available NPK and micros than the save the planet peeps like to admit....
JD, you are a very smart guy and know better
I need to give you a call next week, you know well they are not in the same forms, not even in the same galaxy
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  #24  
Old 09-18-2009, 01:18 AM
Marcos Marcos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.L.Co View Post
please define finished compost... one place sells it here its loaded by cu yard into my trailer and i apply it by wheel barrow and rake and water it immediately, thats how its done here in san antone
A finished compost is one that you literally walk up to & grab a random handful, put up to your nostrils & suck into your lungs, and no longer be able to differentiate between potential components like manure, leaves, wood chips. (Obviously, these components shouldn't be seen in any way, either! )

Essentially, a good finished compost should smell sweet!
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  #25  
Old 09-18-2009, 01:45 AM
Marcos Marcos is offline
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Originally Posted by JDUtah View Post
Plus a 1/4" topdressing puts down a TON more plant available NPK and micros than the save the planet peeps like to admit....


Hmmm....

I'm all for compost whenever & wherever compost makes sense and cost-efficient for the customer, believe me.
But you say what you're saying here, you're sort of throwing a curve ball.

Finished compost & processed high protein meals share some things in common. They both provide X amount of protein for soil microbes to feed off of for an indeterminate period of time depending upon the rate of application and other factors, including climate factors & porosity of soil.
Generally, the overall release of "NPK & micros" from either one of these two sources hinge upon the appetites of the little creatures down below.
If for some reason they ain't hungry, it ain't gonna 'green up' very fast!
On the other hand, when microbes do gain their appetites back (meaning that, all environmental factors are properly in-sync as well), then the property owner can begin to look forward to that sustained, long-lasting green without nerve-racking top-growth, that only comes from the repeated use of organic materials!!

I think you may be getting that extra long release period confused with extra nutients.
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  #26  
Old 09-18-2009, 07:13 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcos View Post


Hmmm....

I'm all for compost whenever & wherever compost makes sense and cost-efficient for the customer, believe me.
But you say what you're saying here, you're sort of throwing a curve ball.

Finished compost & processed high protein meals share some things in common. They both provide X amount of protein for soil microbes to feed off of for an indeterminate period of time depending upon the rate of application and other factors, including climate factors & porosity of soil.
Generally, the overall release of "NPK & micros" from either one of these two sources hinge upon the appetites of the little creatures down below.
If for some reason they ain't hungry, it ain't gonna 'green up' very fast!
On the other hand, when microbes do gain their appetites back (meaning that, all environmental factors are properly in-sync as well), then the property owner can begin to look forward to that sustained, long-lasting green without nerve-racking top-growth, that only comes from the repeated use of organic materials!!

I think you may be getting that extra long release period confused with extra nutients.
That is very well stated. Being in sync with the weather and soil temp are the main ingredients of its effectiveness, IMO.
The grass and the microbes grow at the same pace. Too cold for microbes, too cold for turf. When the grass is growing it is calling for microbes to give it what it needs at the pace that it needs it. Normal healthy grass, growing at a normal healthy pace.

It's a whole different concept, than force feeding NPK, as if we are harvesting forage.
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #27  
Old 09-18-2009, 10:48 AM
GreenerGrassMan GreenerGrassMan is offline
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Has anyone used coffee grounds in their compost? How beneficial or detrimental are they to keeping a lawn green?
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  #28  
Old 09-18-2009, 11:16 AM
Marcos Marcos is offline
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Originally Posted by GreenerGrassMan View Post
Has anyone used coffee grounds in their compost? How beneficial or detrimental are they to keeping a lawn green?
A neighbor of mine has a small coffee shop and gives us buckets & buckets of grounds.
They're loaded with nutrients but extremely acidic.

If the soil in your lawn & garden is generally alkaline (high pH), go for it.
Compost them well to get rid of any junky additives.
If the soil's acid already, I'd probably steer clear of it unless you have acid lovers in the landscape like azelea, rhododendron, boxwood, dogwood, magnolia, & most evergreens, etc.
Then you could compost it in a separate small bin or barrel for exclusive use only around them.

BTW....welcome to Lawnsite!
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  #29  
Old 09-18-2009, 08:08 PM
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americanlawn americanlawn is offline
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dumb question here

Okay - we all agree that compost is good (my favorite is horse manure, but that's another story). My concern is that compost may "smother" the turf cuz it doesn't decompose quickly (like grass clippings). You mentioned aeration & power seeding (ways to "incorporate it into the soil profile" like I thought was best). That's what I was getting at. Lastly was "topdressing": All goff courses I know aerate first before topdressing with organic matter & sand -- thus incorporating it into the soil profile where the roots feed.

I still say spreading compost on top of turfgrass can smother lawns, and I have never seen any natural method that incorporates compost into the soil profile where the grass ROOTS are. Far as I know, the "roots" absorb nutrients unless you're talkin' foliar sprays.

Am I all wet here or what?

p.s. phasthound sells a wide variety of organic products, and he's a swell guy. We buy stuff from him too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
Yes you are.
Probably the best thing you can do for a lawn is aerate, power seed and top dress with good compost. Adding organic matter helps in so many ways.
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  #30  
Old 09-18-2009, 08:27 PM
NattyLawn NattyLawn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcos View Post
A neighbor of mine has a small coffee shop and gives us buckets & buckets of grounds.
They're loaded with nutrients but extremely acidic.

If the soil in your lawn & garden is generally alkaline (high pH), go for it.
Compost them well to get rid of any junky additives.
If the soil's acid already, I'd probably steer clear of it unless you have acid lovers in the landscape like azelea, rhododendron, boxwood, dogwood, magnolia, & most evergreens, etc.
Then you could compost it in a separate small bin or barrel for exclusive use only around them.

BTW....welcome to Lawnsite!
Red wigglers LOVE coffee grounds, among other things. If you have access to a large supply, think about starting a worm bin.
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