Register free!
Search
 
     

Click for Weather
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 10-05-2009, 08:47 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by dishboy View Post
That may be true for your location, but here the ground may or may not freeze, so roots continue growing throughout the winter or start early in the spring. IMO a light Organic spring application does not force growth and the existing night-crawler population will make quick work of getting that ORGANIC fertilizer into the root zone.
Case in point, did a application late February and also fertilized (corn meal) under the trees in a non turf area. I returned the next morning to see hundreds of two inch circles where the night-crawlers had cleaned the corn meal and dragged it into their burrows overnight. So in reality this fertilizer was quickly brought into the root zones.
I don't think this is a black and white issue, light applications of Organic fertilizer will produce different results than a dump of quickly available CWS N.
Good post. I agree that organic fert does not spike the green growth, nor does it 'force' the green growth in the spring. Earthworms are definately worth everything to any soil. Too bad they don't take synthetics NPK prills down into the root zone.
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-05-2009, 09:37 AM
JDUtah's Avatar
JDUtah JDUtah is offline
LawnSite Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UT
Posts: 2,671
i haven't read the entire thread, but perhaps the grass can absorb and assimilate the mineral nutrients and store them in its roots and crown during times when the leaves are dormant.

Perhaps the carbs required for mineral assimilation and spring growth are manufactured and stored during early fall when photosynthesis is taking place without top-growth.

Early fall.. manufacture and store carbohydrates

Late fall and early winter... assimilate and store necessary mineral nutrients

Spring... use stored carbs and stored nutrients to quickly manufacture new top growth so you can manufacture carbs ASAP.

Summer... Manufacture carbs and use the energy in reproduction (seed production)

Fall... after reproduction continue to manufacture carbs to store for the next springs leaf growth.

That's how I see it anyways. Could be right, could be wrong. Peace out.

Oh, also, can a plant absorb carbs without spending more energy than the carbs are worth? Only if they are soluble. (think active vs passive transport) Microbes must make them soluble for them to be worth assimilating. In other words, I think assimilation and root absorbtion is mainly used for nutrients, not energy... hence the need for plants produce their own energy. Again, peace out. I gotta go cut some cow.

Last edited by JDUtah; 10-05-2009 at 09:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-05-2009, 12:04 PM
tracyalan's Avatar
tracyalan tracyalan is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 58
Thanks for all the input. Glad to see that there are alot out there that "do" know what they are doing.
__________________
Tracy & Lynn Lawn Painting Sevice
www.tlyardworks.com
Aurora, Colorado
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-06-2009, 05:04 PM
bx24 bx24 is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: MA/TX
Posts: 502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Earthworms are definately worth everything to any soil.
Sure, until you have moles!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-06-2009, 08:22 PM
nc-jrock nc-jrock is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 132
What source of N do any of you recommend for late fall apps? Is urea considered organic/natural?
__________________
" It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government " ~ Thomas Paine.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-07-2009, 08:39 AM
shutzero shutzero is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ct
Posts: 38
What is recomended for Connecticut? I was going to go with scotts but what do u guys think
Posted via Mobile Device
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-07-2009, 10:17 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,827
I don't think the type of fert matters much. I personally use Milorganite on the organically cultured soils and that usually does it.
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-07-2009, 11:27 AM
Marcos Marcos is offline
LawnSite Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 3,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
The purpose of winterizer is to build the carbs inside the plant for spring time growth. Storing up fat for the winter and spring, as it were.
In the spring as the soil warms, from the top down, the first awakening roots would soak up the water as soon as it was able. In that same layer the microbes are also coming to life. Those roots start growing as the microbes generate nutrients for them, as needed.

Soon the surface dries and warms even deeper and more roots do more growing deeper in the soil. This wakeup is fueled by the stored nutrients and is first and foremost for the purpose of growing roots. This is where the competition for soil space begins. This is when the plant takes advantage the loosened soil, from the freezing/thawing cycle and gets as deep as it possibly can.

During the spring wakeup, very little is happening above ground, by comparison. The plant does not need lots of green growth at this time, therefore it does not waste energy on green growth at this time. It needs root growth and that it what it is focussing on, naturally.

Putting N on at this time changes the natural process of root development to shoot development, and the roots expand greatly at the surface because that is where all the food is. This begins the endless cycle of regular feedings and surface grown roots and the development of thatch.

At least that is the way I understand it and it makes sense to me.

In theory, I believe all of what Smallaxe has to say to be true.
What I believe generally is not true is vastly varying soil's structure's' abilities to contain highly soluble 46-0-0 for long enough periods of time so that the vastly varying root systems of turf we all deal with can adequately & cost-effectively make the most efficient use of it.

As with what commonly occurs in agriculture worldwide, a significant & varied % of lawn care urea gets wasted annually into the water table and/or off into the watershed, depending upon factors like overall turf density, slope, local soil type & overall porosity.

This is only one reason why the use of quick-release N should be severely limited in the late fall, and in some of the more sensitive parts of the country restricted in turf, as it's entering dormancy, and certainly after its already achieved dormancy.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-08-2009, 06:15 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,827
Good point Marcos... that is why I am concerned about zone 4 turf being 'winterized' around Thansgiving time. We could easily be under permanent winter cover a couple of weeks later. What's going to happen to this N?

Last year I used time release on a couple of yards, in late Oct., and the prills were still there last spring. So in reality they got a spring feeding right at the surface where I didn't want it. Then after the heavy spring rains they were gone. Probably into the drink....

This year the winterizer is going on now, and it is Milorganite.
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-08-2009, 01:24 PM
Marcos Marcos is offline
LawnSite Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 3,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Good point Marcos... that is why I am concerned about zone 4 turf being 'winterized' around Thansgiving time. We could easily be under permanent winter cover a couple of weeks later. What's going to happen to this N?

Last year I used time release on a couple of yards, in late Oct., and the prills were still there last spring. So in reality they got a spring feeding right at the surface where I didn't want it. Then after the heavy spring rains they were gone. Probably into the drink....

This year the winterizer is going on now, and it is Milorganite.
Q: What likely happened to quick-release "winterizer" fertilizer applied around Thanksgiving in Wisconsin?
A: The lion's share of it no doubt ended up either in surface tributaries or your area's drinking water aquifer.

What's the avg soil temp where you are right now?
It's got to be on the decline, and fast...
Do you think you'll still get significant plant up-take this fall from your October round of Milorganite?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:52 AM.

Page generated in 0.11608 seconds with 8 queries