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  #11  
Old 11-11-2009, 08:49 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foreplease View Post
The spikes are a good idea for establishing seed - period. A good stiff rake would work too.

You appear to go out of your way to use the "invisible barrier" term in as many threads as possible.

If you search on my name and:
invisible barrier: Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.
barrier: Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.

However, search on SmallAxe and:
invisible barrier: 10 results found
barrier: 33 results found

I have not used Scotts Turf Builder With Halts Crabgrass Preventer, or read the bag, or disclosed anything that would indicate to you or anyone else what my understanding of "pre-m" is.

You offered TPnTX no help, no ideas, no solultions. Why bother posting.
I disagree that it was no help. Any time the correct knowledge of how a chemical works is brought into the conversation - it helps.

The pre-m is going to stifle any root growth, Period. Which is generally fatal to newly germinated seeds. Period. No barrier, invisible or otherwise. No barrier at all.
In response to this comment -"I am wondering though, If I took a spike aerator and perforate it,..."

Sounds like the word perforate has meaning. I will continue to bash the invisible barrier mentality, just because professional LCO's should know better. Deal with it.
That should now be 11 and 35 results found. Big deal
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #12  
Old 11-11-2009, 09:04 AM
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Smittie Smittie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPnTX View Post
My guys informed me that one our resturants which has rye grass was accidentally treated with dimension. The rye was put down in 1st week of october. Dimension 007 was done late October.

It has a good stand and so far doesn't show any sign of injury but I'm still concerned. There is also a pretty visible area that a little thin and now that the Bermuda is just beginning to go dormant, if I could I would put down more seed. Too late know.

I am wondering though, If I took a spike aerator and perforate it, I wonder if I'd get any seed to emerge. This also is to try and anticipate and injury that may still begin to show. We've had a lot of rain.

Any ideas. I know you can neutralize but thats a major job and this is a popular national restaurant.
I'm just south of Fort Worth and got put behind due to rain on putting down rye seed at the last two properties I needed to do. I applied seed week of halloween and checked it on 11/09 and germination rates look good already have seedlings about an inch and a half tall. Try putting out some more seed with the warm daytime temps I think you should be fine.
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  #13  
Old 11-30-2009, 09:31 AM
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TPnTX TPnTX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
I disagree that it was no help. Any time the correct knowledge of how a chemical works is brought into the conversation - it helps.

The pre-m is going to stifle any root growth, Period. Which is generally fatal to newly germinated seeds. Period. No barrier, invisible or otherwise. No barrier at all.
In response to this comment -"I am wondering though, If I took a spike aerator and perforate it,..."

Sounds like the word perforate has meaning. I will continue to bash the invisible barrier mentality, just because professional LCO's should know better. Deal with it.
That should now be 11 and 35 results found. Big deal
You caught it right. Thats exactly what I thought. You can throw a stick(google) and hit something that says not to aerate after applying pre-m. I just was thinking wildly about what I could do in case I need to re-seed.

I will say this though. I did a search on "invisible barrier" and I really don't care to read all that crap. You want to learn me something, tell me. Im not interested in the bitterness and the flaming smileys. Then you should back it up with a source if you can. Otherwise Lawnsite is hardly a step up from the guy at Home Depot. You still get to be the rock-star.
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  #14  
Old 11-30-2009, 10:17 AM
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TPnTX TPnTX is offline
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Here is one document from DOW that may suggest there is a barrier. The mechanics of this barrier may be interpreted in different ways. Thats what I'd like to know also.

http://www.cdms.net/ldat/ld7ND003.pdf
(see the application directions)
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  #15  
Old 11-30-2009, 10:47 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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A "barrier" with respect to a pre-emergent can be considered one where the herbicide is present and active in the layer of soil where germination is most likely to occur. If you can take random samples of soil and find the herbicide present in all samples, then you in effect have a "barrier" of sorts.

In your case, what you need to concern yourself with is how to quickly reduce the levels of herbicide in the soil. In the case of dimension, aerating & compost application will help to achieve that goal.
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  #16  
Old 11-30-2009, 11:21 AM
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TPnTX TPnTX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
A "barrier" with respect to a pre-emergent can be considered one where the herbicide is present and active in the layer of soil where germination is most likely to occur. If you can take random samples of soil and find the herbicide present in all samples, then you in effect have a "barrier" of sorts.

In your case, what you need to concern yourself with is how to quickly reduce the levels of herbicide in the soil. In the case of dimension, aerating & compost application will help to achieve that goal.
sounds reasonable. Sounds Like a "invisible barrier"

Im not trying to bait an argument.
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  #17  
Old 12-01-2009, 08:54 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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I believe the herbicide leaches rather quickly as well, if there is a lot of rain and irrigation, the crabgrass can sprout 2 weeks after application.
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #18  
Old 12-01-2009, 09:26 AM
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TPnTX TPnTX is offline
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so.....do you not have a comment or opinion to the dow PDF specifically the "barrier"

Again man I not baiting you. I am here to learn.

lol I'm trying to clear this up so I don't end up like a liberal as Reagan described.
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  #19  
Old 12-02-2009, 07:59 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPnTX View Post
so.....do you not have a comment or opinion to the dow PDF specifically the "barrier"

Again man I not baiting you. I am here to learn.

lol I'm trying to clear this up so I don't end up like a liberal as Reagan described.
I think Kiril gave as good a desciption as any about why they would use the "barrier" analogy.
My take on it is that it dissolves and spreads out in the water for a good even coverage. Works best on bare soil. Clods or grass may prevent even distribution, as per your, extended label pdf... this way no seed may germinate w/out taking in some Dimension. But forming a "barrier" is not how the AI works.

Here is another website description...
http://www.landscape-america.com/pro...preemerge.html
* "Preemergent herbicides are chemicals that prevent the germinating weeds from establishing in the lawn. These herbicides control annual grass weeds by inhibiting cell division in the young root system. The failure of the root system to develop results in the death of the young seedling weed shortly after germination." *
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #20  
Old 12-02-2009, 01:31 PM
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TPnTX TPnTX is offline
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alright, Im confused then.

I thought you had some opposition to the notion barrier, "invisible barrier" mentality as you put it. I believe you said a LC should know better.

If you agree with Kiril then you are subscribing to a "shield" "barrier" mentality aren't you?
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