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  #21  
Old 12-02-2009, 11:17 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Originally Posted by TPnTX View Post
alright, Im confused then.

I thought you had some opposition to the notion barrier, "invisible barrier" mentality as you put it. I believe you said a LC should know better.

If you agree with Kiril then you are subscribing to a "shield" "barrier" mentality aren't you?
There is a big difference to a root inhibiting herbicide, that spreads evenly over the surface of the soil, and an invisible barrier that doesn't allow weeds to pop through.

Take a couple of minutes, or days, if necessary to think about -- How the AI functions...
At some point ... everyone learns... However ... I have never learned how the invisible barrier prevent weeds from popping out of the ground once they've germinated...

It is not rocket science...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #22  
Old 12-03-2009, 08:28 AM
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TPnTX TPnTX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
There is a big difference to a root inhibiting herbicide, that spreads evenly over the surface of the soil, and an invisible barrier that doesn't allow weeds to pop through.

Take a couple of minutes, or days, if necessary to think about -- How the AI functions...
At some point ... everyone learns... However ... I have never learned how the invisible barrier prevent weeds from popping out of the ground once they've germinated...

It is not rocket science...
SmallAxe chill out man. I got it now. It's not the difficultly of the subject at hand. Its understanding what you are talking about that is difficult.

I understand now. You think when someone refers to it as an invisible barrier that you talking about some invisible fabric of some sort.

I can't believe I stepped in this. Now I'll just try and scrape it off my shoe.
(referring to this conversation with you, this is called an analogy. Did I step in a pile of crap? No? Am I scraping anything off my shoe? no but it does provide a visual)

When I brought up spike aerating. What I actually meant was penetrating a layer of soil that contains the herbicide allowing a seed to reach soil that doesn't contain the herbicide, germinate and emerge sufficiently before it actually reach and herbicide.

Why you are hung up on people using an analogy. You've now wasted a lot of my time. I'm actually aggravated at you for it. I would imagine based on what I've noticed so far that you've aggravated a lot of people insisting they don't understand something when in fact its you that can't understand.

Invisible barrier.
I have never learned how the invisible barrier prevent weeds from popping out of the ground once they've germinated...

lol, okay lesson # 1. The invisible barrier dosn't physically prevent a plant from popping out of the ground. Rather it is a root inhibiting herbicide, that spreads evenly over the surface of the soil which ultimately results preventing weeds from popping out of the ground once they've germinated.

Analogy.
Analogy is a cognitive process of transferring information from a particular subject (the analogue or source) to another particular subject (the target), and a linguistic expression corresponding to such a process.

Last edited by TPnTX; 12-03-2009 at 08:34 AM.
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  #23  
Old 12-03-2009, 09:08 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by TPnTX View Post
When I brought up spike aerating. What I actually meant was penetrating a layer of soil that contains the herbicide allowing a seed to reach soil that doesn't contain the herbicide, germinate and emerge sufficiently before it actually reach and herbicide.
This isn't the reason you would spike or core aerate. For Dimension (dithiopyr) you can quite likely reduce the efficacy by helping to increase losses to volatilization, microbial degradation, and perhaps a small fraction to photodegradation via aeration with compost/compost tea application.
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  #24  
Old 12-03-2009, 09:23 AM
dishboy dishboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
This isn't the reason you would spike or core aerate. For Dimension (dithiopyr) you can quite likely reduce the efficacy by helping to increase losses to volatilization, microbial degradation, and perhaps a small fraction to photodegradation via aeration with compost/compost tea application.
Please site peer reviewed documentation so support your assertion
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  #25  
Old 12-03-2009, 09:41 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Originally Posted by TPnTX View Post
SmallAxe chill out man. I got it now. It's not the difficultly of the subject at hand. Its understanding what you are talking about that is difficult.

I understand now. You think when someone refers to it as an invisible barrier that you talking about some invisible fabric of some sort.

I can't believe I stepped in this. Now I'll just try and scrape it off my shoe.
(referring to this conversation with you, this is called an analogy. Did I step in a pile of crap? No? Am I scraping anything off my shoe? no but it does provide a visual)

When I brought up spike aerating. What I actually meant was penetrating a layer of soil that contains the herbicide allowing a seed to reach soil that doesn't contain the herbicide, germinate and emerge sufficiently before it actually reach and herbicide.

Why you are hung up on people using an analogy. You've now wasted a lot of my time. I'm actually aggravated at you for it. I would imagine based on what I've noticed so far that you've aggravated a lot of people insisting they don't understand something when in fact its you that can't understand.

Invisible barrier.
I have never learned how the invisible barrier prevent weeds from popping out of the ground once they've germinated...

lol, okay lesson # 1. The invisible barrier dosn't physically prevent a plant from popping out of the ground. Rather it is a root inhibiting herbicide, that spreads evenly over the surface of the soil which ultimately results preventing weeds from popping out of the ground once they've germinated.

Analogy.
Analogy is a cognitive process of transferring information from a particular subject (the analogue or source) to another particular subject (the target), and a linguistic expression corresponding to such a process.
Its a misleading analogy at best, and downright harmful, most of the time. There is so much mythology built around pre-M that it is impossible to talk sense about proper usage.
Perforate your barrier and plant your seeds.
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #26  
Old 12-03-2009, 09:48 AM
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TPnTX TPnTX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
This isn't the reason you would spike or core aerate. For Dimension (dithiopyr) you can quite likely reduce the efficacy by helping to increase losses to volatilization, microbial degradation, and perhaps a small fraction to photodegradation via aeration with compost/compost tea application.
what poke holes in the invisible barrier?

then you have to deal with the sorbed comtaminants
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  #27  
Old 12-03-2009, 09:49 AM
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TPnTX TPnTX is offline
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Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Its a misleading analogy at best, and downright harmful, most of the time. There is so much mythology built around pre-M that it is impossible to talk sense about proper usage.
Perforate your barrier and plant your seeds.
You're right thanks for your help.
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  #28  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:14 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by dishboy View Post
Please site peer reviewed documentation so support your assertion
Abiotic and Biotic Degradation of Dithiopyr in Golf Course Greens
Song Hong and, Albert E. Smith
Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry 1996 44 (10), 3393-3398

Dissipation of the herbicide dithiopyr in soil and residues in wheat (Triticum aestivum L) grain under Indian tropical conditions.
Saikia, Nirmali; Kulshrestha, Gita
Pest Management Science, Volume 59, issue 1 (January 2003), p. 114 - 118.

Dissipation And Efficacy Of Pendimenthalin, Prodiamine, Dithiopyr And Bensulide As Affected By Dose And Application Timing For Crabgrass (Digitaria Sp) Control In A Turfgrass Environment.
Acuna, Alejandra A.
Degree: Doctor of Philosophy, Horticulture and Crop Science, 2009, Ohio State University

Plant biocommunicators: their phytotoxicity, degradation studies and potential use as herbicide models.
Mac√*as, F. A. Oliveros-Bastidas, A. Mar√*n, D. Carrera, C. Chinchilla, N. Molinillo, J. M.
Phytochemistry Reviews, 2008, VOL 7; NUMBER 1, pages 179-194

Efficacy and Dissipation of Dithiopyr and Pendimethalin in Perennial Ryegrass (Lolium perenne) Turf
Leo C. Schleicher, Patrick J. Shea, Robert N. Stougaard and Duane R. Tupy
Weed Science, Vol. 43, No. 1 (Jan. - Mar., 1995), pp. 140-148


Is that enough for you dishboy, or do you need more?
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  #29  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:32 AM
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TPnTX TPnTX is offline
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Kiril, and you claim to NOT be a nerd. Thats some nerdy shet right there

I seemed to have misplaced my gas chromatograph with a NPD detector
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  #30  
Old 12-03-2009, 11:59 AM
dishboy dishboy is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: zone 6
Posts: 3,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Abiotic and Biotic Degradation of Dithiopyr in Golf Course Greens
Song Hong and, Albert E. Smith
Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry 1996 44 (10), 3393-3398

Dissipation of the herbicide dithiopyr in soil and residues in wheat (Triticum aestivum L) grain under Indian tropical conditions.
Saikia, Nirmali; Kulshrestha, Gita
Pest Management Science, Volume 59, issue 1 (January 2003), p. 114 - 118.

Dissipation And Efficacy Of Pendimenthalin, Prodiamine, Dithiopyr And Bensulide As Affected By Dose And Application Timing For Crabgrass (Digitaria Sp) Control In A Turfgrass Environment.
Acuna, Alejandra A.
Degree: Doctor of Philosophy, Horticulture and Crop Science, 2009, Ohio State University

Plant biocommunicators: their phytotoxicity, degradation studies and potential use as herbicide models.
Mac√*as, F. A. Oliveros-Bastidas, A. Mar√*n, D. Carrera, C. Chinchilla, N. Molinillo, J. M.
Phytochemistry Reviews, 2008, VOL 7; NUMBER 1, pages 179-194

Efficacy and Dissipation of Dithiopyr and Pendimethalin in Perennial Ryegrass (Lolium perenne) Turf
Leo C. Schleicher, Patrick J. Shea, Robert N. Stougaard and Duane R. Tupy
Weed Science, Vol. 43, No. 1 (Jan. - Mar., 1995), pp. 140-148


Is that enough for you dishboy, or do you need more?
That's pretty good, you realize I was only messing with you, right!
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