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  #31  
Old 12-03-2009, 01:20 PM
mdlwn1 mdlwn1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPnTX View Post
SmallAxe chill out man. I got it now. It's not the difficultly of the subject at hand. Its understanding what you are talking about that is difficult.

I understand now. You think when someone refers to it as an invisible barrier that you talking about some invisible fabric of some sort.

I can't believe I stepped in this. Now I'll just try and scrape it off my shoe.
(referring to this conversation with you, this is called an analogy. Did I step in a pile of crap? No? Am I scraping anything off my shoe? no but it does provide a visual)

When I brought up spike aerating. What I actually meant was penetrating a layer of soil that contains the herbicide allowing a seed to reach soil that doesn't contain the herbicide, germinate and emerge sufficiently before it actually reach and herbicide.

Why you are hung up on people using an analogy. You've now wasted a lot of my time. I'm actually aggravated at you for it. I would imagine based on what I've noticed so far that you've aggravated a lot of people insisting they don't understand something when in fact its you that can't understand.

Invisible barrier.
I have never learned how the invisible barrier prevent weeds from popping out of the ground once they've germinated...

lol, okay lesson # 1. The invisible barrier dosn't physically prevent a plant from popping out of the ground. Rather it is a root inhibiting herbicide, that spreads evenly over the surface of the soil which ultimately results preventing weeds from popping out of the ground once they've germinated.

Analogy.
Analogy is a cognitive process of transferring information from a particular subject (the analogue or source) to another particular subject (the target), and a linguistic expression corresponding to such a process.
For the life of me I can not understand why someone like Smallaxe who claims to know so much cannot understand what you wrote.
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  #32  
Old 12-03-2009, 01:30 PM
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TPnTX TPnTX is offline
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Originally Posted by mdlwn1 View Post
For the life of me I can not understand why someone like Smallaxe who claims to know so much cannot understand what you wrote.
you know I find that really strange too. As a matter of fact when I realized what was happening I thought, what? does he think I or someone else thinks that some invisible crust is formed. I'm still shaking my head on that.

then I try to explain that to him and you know, "I just can't seem to get it off my shoe"
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  #33  
Old 12-03-2009, 03:31 PM
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grassman177 grassman177 is offline
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great conversation here guys, kinda funny as you read all the posts. the soil you penetrate still has toxic herbicide in it, you are just increasing the rate of decomposition of the material when you break it up, therefore achieving your goal of seed establishment after the fact, due to the concentration of the herbicide being greatly reduced due to degradation. give or take a little depending on the herbicide and rate used
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  #34  
Old 12-03-2009, 05:39 PM
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yeah but that doesn't sound near as cool as the way Kiril put it.
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  #35  
Old 12-03-2009, 09:11 PM
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tlg tlg is offline
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This whole thread has really amused me. An argument over terminology. Does it really matter if chemicals applied form a barrier or an invisible force field? Dimension is absorbed by the roots of a germinating seed. The plant or seedling if you will, should never " break through " this "barrier ". This basically means the plant will not emerge through in simple terms. Dimension also acts as a post- emergent. Meaning plants that have germinated will also be killed. Pre or post the seedling must germinate to be killed. Sounds like a barrier to me. At least as far as a pre emergent. A plant that has already emerged really can't " break through " a " barrier ". I believe this is where the invisible force field comes in. Dow chemical really does not want you guy's to have this information but this really needs to come out. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck.................




As far as the problem with the seed job. The chemical is in the soil. The label clearly states how long the chemical is active. Why risk applying more seed when the potential for damage is still there? It seems to me there is only one answer. Just wait.
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  #36  
Old 12-04-2009, 01:14 AM
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grassman177 grassman177 is offline
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i have seeded plenty of times after pre was already put down, just not with barricade. but you can destroy the top layer of soil and seed with little issues so why abandon the idea?!
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  #37  
Old 12-04-2009, 08:18 AM
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TPnTX TPnTX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlg
An argument over terminology.

In the end it is semantics. I'd hardly call it an argument though as if to imply both sides disagreeing with one another.

The delineation of an invisible barrier is very simple. To the extent he opposed this depiction and clearly had been doing so for some time, I gave gave him the benefit of the doubt only to realize he is only struggling linguisticly.

You'll have to ask SmallAxe was his perspective is.
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  #38  
Old 12-04-2009, 10:06 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Seed will grow Above the barrier?!!??
2 many LCOs believe you can.
2 many LCOs can stir up the suface and disrupt the barrier and overseed with lawngrass.
In fact that may be one of the reasons that LCOs get such poor germination rates. They blame the seed or the HO, when they fail to realize their are chemical inhibitors in the soil.
Perhaps the barrier was a good analogy for Scotts but it was a problem for LCOs who got their understanding of - how things work - from a Scott's label.

Next step is: does pre-m ever become redundant? Is there a better time to pre-m for crabgrass other than - as soon as the ground thaws? Just some more linguistic exercises I'm sure.
But next spring b4 the grass even greens up there will be many "Professional LCOs" out there with their bags of "Weed 'n Feed", preserving the brown and thin spots, of their clients' lawns so that they can become muddy spots for the client to enjoy All Summer Long... Semantics?!!?? Little or no thought goes into these 4 step programs. "Scott's has it on their label, that's good enough for me."
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  #39  
Old 12-04-2009, 10:37 AM
Kane Kane is offline
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????????????
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  #40  
Old 12-04-2009, 01:18 PM
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tlg tlg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grassman177 View Post
i have seeded plenty of times after pre was already put down, just not with barricade. but you can destroy the top layer of soil and seed with little issues so why abandon the idea?!
I think you would be hard pressed to destroy the " top layer " of soil to the point were the chemical is no longer active. Knowing the chemistry and the mode of action on a pre like Dimension the chemical can only be broken by length of time in the soil, temperature, sunlight, water and microbial activity. If in fact you have seeded lawns after a pre was applied and had success is just lucky IMO. It seems to me that if your told by a manufacturer
NOT to over-seed for X amount of days there is a reason. If you yourself want to take the risk of your time and money to do it anyway that's great. To lead somebody else to believe it could be done without risk or consequences is not the best advice IMO.
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