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  #71  
Old 11-30-2009, 01:00 AM
AWJ Services AWJ Services is offline
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Strongly disagree with your many of your statements. Yes, there are plenty of Chinese TV manufacturers, but none that have the quality or the performance of a Sony or Samsung. Those two are still the leaders in HD technology, and certainly a wide margin separates them from the Chinese manufacturers.

Secondly, you'd be mistaken if you think that Chinese CE manufacturers won't make an impact -- the market is so large in China that establishing dominance in that market alone automatically qualifies some series market share numbers:
So you are saying no Sony or Samsung Tv's are manufactured in China?


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I am curious (read: worried) about what will happen when the Chinese manufacturers finally get online and produce a competent product. Maybe it'll be tough -- there are no Chinese TV manufacturers, for instance -- but if they somehow penetrate, Cat and Deere and all the other folks charging a premium are going to have a tough time justifying it.
So why did you post this?

I also will ask do you know anyone who has or have you been involved in the importing of Chinese goods into the states?
I do so I actually know how it works right now. It may change in the future but right now it would be of no consequence.
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  #72  
Old 11-30-2009, 10:08 AM
Digdeep Digdeep is offline
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Originally Posted by AWJ Services View Post
Tell me where it says it in my TL140 manual?
I would like to read this.
This is directly from my buddy who sells Takeuchi here in Wisconsin. It is the very first bulleted point in "Prohibited Operations" on page 70 and it quotes, "Do not operate on base rock (hard or soft)."

He can't understand why people think that these machines are "good in gravel" and that anyone who thinks that these machines are made for running in gravel should call him so that he can sell them lots of tracks and rollers. Tracks because the gravel causes severe fissures at the edge of the plates that the rollers ride on and he'll sell you lots of rollers because debris causes big time stress on the rear and front idlers and the bearings go bad quickly. He figures tracks last around 800-1000 hours up here and idlers average about 1500-1750 depending on what the customer does. While he says they are far from perfect (he said loader valves are a real problem)overall he is very happy selling them compared to when we used to sell Bobcat together.
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  #73  
Old 11-30-2009, 10:39 AM
KTM KTM is offline
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Originally Posted by Digdeep View Post
This is directly from my buddy who sells Takeuchi here in Wisconsin. It is the very first bulleted point in "Prohibited Operations" on page 70 and it quotes, "Do not operate on base rock (hard or soft)."

He can't understand why people think that these machines are "good in gravel" and that anyone who thinks that these machines are made for running in gravel should call him so that he can sell them lots of tracks and rollers. Tracks because the gravel causes severe fissures at the edge of the plates that the rollers ride on and he'll sell you lots of rollers because debris causes big time stress on the rear and front idlers and the bearings go bad quickly. He figures tracks last around 800-1000 hours up here and idlers average about 1500-1750 depending on what the customer does. While he says they are far from perfect (he said loader valves are a real problem)overall he is very happy selling them compared to when we used to sell Bobcat together.
I probably know of the buddy that you are talking about, You might be the minority for sales people, but most of the one's i have ever dealt with really know nothing about running machines. When I get into something new I like to go talk to people that have used them in the real world, and who have put hours on them besides dealer shows. Do you think these manufactures think people are going to buy a CTL and when they have to spread gravel,, stop and go get something more suitable? Yes, they do say things in the manual, that you should not do, like was said above a decent operator should know bad situations. When you spread gravel you should avoid a bad turning situation, yes, when a piece gets in there you will start to hear a horrible noise, try to maneuver to get the piece out is what I was told buy operators who have ran these for thousands of hours, Always worked for me. There is SOME INFO in owners manuals that are there to keep the lawsuits away.
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  #74  
Old 11-30-2009, 10:55 AM
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YellowDogSVC YellowDogSVC is offline
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So, are we saying that if you are careful and skilled you can work these CTL's in rock or rocky situations? What does crushed base, ie., the fines and sand do to the undercarriage?
I notice some awful sounds coming from my mini ex with rubber tracks when I work in rocky terrain and rocks get into the U/C.
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  #75  
Old 11-30-2009, 11:06 AM
Digdeep Digdeep is offline
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Originally Posted by KTM View Post
I probably know of the buddy that you are talking about, You might be the minority for sales people, but most of the one's i have ever dealt with really know nothing about running machines. When I get into something new I like to go talk to people that have used them in the real world, and who have put hours on them besides dealer shows. Do you think these manufactures think people are going to buy a CTL and when they have to spread gravel,, stop and go get something more suitable? Yes, they do say things in the manual, that you should not do, like was said above a decent operator should know bad situations. When you spread gravel you should avoid a bad turning situation, yes, when a piece gets in there you will start to hear a horrible noise, try to maneuver to get the piece out is what I was told buy operators who have ran these for thousands of hours, Always worked for me. There is SOME INFO in owners manuals that are there to keep the lawsuits away.
Don't mistake my post as bashing the Takeuchi because I think they are a good machine, and I agree that the great majority of salesmen don't have the operating chops to make a living running a machine.

However, it is very easily to argue that the ones (salesmen) that have been around long enough have probably seen the machine they are selling in far more applications than the customer buying the machine due to selling across multiple types of businesses- landscaping, construction, demo, utility, vegetation management, forestry, recycling, etc. This makes them pretty smart when it comes to knowing what will happen to a machine when a certain type of customer buys it, or what will happen to the machine if it will be doing a certain type of application. Besides, selling equipment has a way of "weeding out" those that can't make it. Especially, in this economy.

I think people will continue to spread gravel in any way they can get it done. It is just important to know that it isn't done with these machines without cost, just like everything else has a cost associated with it. I've used my machine to do lots of things that I probably shouldn't have. I've also broken lots of things I own over the years, but I've also known exactly how they were broken. It killed me when someone would tell me..."I don't know how it broke...I was just driving along and it was broken." Yeah sure"

Very true that there is some information in owners manuals that helps to prevent lawsuits/liability, but come on now, you have to wonder why it is even in there to in the first place? I can tell you that it's not in there as filler or to use extra page space. Do you think it could be in there because what it warns you about has actually happened once or twice before??
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  #76  
Old 11-30-2009, 11:10 AM
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bobcat_ron bobcat_ron is offline
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So base rock is what we have here. It's all on the operator's style of operating, I am gentle, that's how I got even 500 hours on my Cat, if I was an animal, I would be replacing rollers right now.

This is Takeuchi's video, even they explain how the track system is better, right at 2:21:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuLREx-O73k
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  #77  
Old 11-30-2009, 11:21 AM
Digdeep Digdeep is offline
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Originally Posted by bobcat_ron View Post
This is Takeuchi's video, even they explain how the track system is better, right at 2:21:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuLREx-O73k
I wouldn't expect them to say it is worse I think they are a good machine. I just hope you don't have man boobs because you'll have sore tits with that rough ride!!!!! did you see that guys jowls bouncing in the video. Looks like he stuck a quarter in the bed at a $20 an hour hotel
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  #78  
Old 11-30-2009, 11:22 AM
KTM KTM is offline
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Originally Posted by Digdeep View Post
Don't mistake my post as bashing the Takeuchi because I think they are a good machine, and I agree that the great majority of salesmen don't have the operating chops to make a living running a machine.

However, it is very easily to argue that the ones (salesmen) that have been around long enough have probably seen the machine they are selling in far more applications than the customer buying the machine due to selling across multiple types of businesses- landscaping, construction, demo, utility, vegetation management, forestry, recycling, etc. This makes them pretty smart when it comes to knowing what will happen to a machine when a certain type of customer buys it, or what will happen to the machine if it will be doing a certain type of application. Besides, selling equipment has a way of "weeding out" those that can't make it. Especially, in this economy.

I think people will continue to spread gravel in any way they can get it done. It is just important to know that it isn't done with these machines without cost, just like everything else has a cost associated with it. I've used my machine to do lots of things that I probably shouldn't have. I've also broken lots of things I own over the years, but I've also known exactly how they were broken. It killed me when someone would tell me..."I don't know how it broke...I was just driving along and it was broken." Yeah sure"

Very true that there is some information in owners manuals that helps to prevent lawsuits/liability, but come on now, you have to wonder why it is even in there to in the first place? I can tell you that it's not in there as filler or to use extra page space. Do you think it could be in there because what it warns you about has actually happened once or twice before??
I think the worse is company's that buy these things for there employees to do concrete removal. I have respect for some concrete guys, but could you imagine buying a 50k machine and giving it to your average cement head employee? LOL I was in the local Case ag dealer to talk to a buddy of mine one day, he was working on a 440CT, the thing was trashed. I go holy chit how many hours on that thing? He laughed, a bit under 400! He said all the concrete skids are beat but this is the worst I have seen.
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  #79  
Old 11-30-2009, 11:26 AM
Digdeep Digdeep is offline
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Originally Posted by KTM View Post
I think the worse is company's that buy these things for there employees to do concrete removal. I have respect for some concrete guys, but could you imagine buying a 50k machine and giving it to your average cement head employee? LOL I was in the local Case ag dealer to talk to a buddy of mine one day, he was working on a 440CT, the thing was trashed. I go holy chit how many hours on that thing? He laughed, a bit under 400! He said all the concrete skids are beat but this is the worst I have seen.
I've seen some real "meatheads" running machines in my time. I agree with you. An owner pays $50k+ for a machine and he pays a guy $10-15 an hour to run it and wonders why the machine is pounded to death in under a year.
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  #80  
Old 11-30-2009, 12:33 PM
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bobcat_ron bobcat_ron is offline
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Originally Posted by Digdeep View Post
I've seen some real "meatheads" running machines in my time. I agree with you. An owner pays $50k+ for a machine and he pays a guy $10-15 an hour to run it and wonders why the machine is pounded to death in under a year.
There you go, that's the point in why some dealers push Takeuchi over their own, maybe they were selling to meatheads!!
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