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  #51  
Old 12-07-2009, 03:51 PM
KTM KTM is offline
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Originally Posted by ksss View Post
I got a copy of the warranty. Forestry is excluded in this warranty, might be included in others certainly at a higher rate.

The money is also higher since I last checked.

I could get 5 year 3K hour bumper to bumper for $6500. They do have 5 year 5K hour and it was like $11K. I will post the paperwork when I have a minute.

TSS your final would have been covered as a CASE anyway. Unless you ran it out of oil or something it specifically says that the finals are covered assuming you still had coverage.
Define "bumper to bumper" when I think of this I think of A warranty like a new car's 3/36, where as even when you do something like break a switch they will replace it
5/3 seams more like it, I thought we were talking 5/5. They are banking on you houring out of the warranty before the 5 years is up.
You can also look at it like this, the warranty is going to cost you more than $6500 by the time you pay it off. Or if you are a cash paying customer the money might make you more in a investment.
I was brought up not to trust anyone, and have been screwed by a few dealers. I also have in laws who are very large farmers and are very naive and trusting. And see first hand how a dealer screws with them and price gouges when they think that you trust them. I do see both point of views though.
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  #52  
Old 12-07-2009, 07:23 PM
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DeereMan85 DeereMan85 is offline
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I can't speak for anyone else (although I'm sure the following is true of everyone), but I can say with the utmost certainty that Deere will not void your warranty solely because your repairs exceed the cost of the warranty. Warranty prices operate on the law of large numbers: that is, it can safely be assumed that if the statistical pool is large enough, catastrophic occurrences can be accurately predicted through actuarial methods (SellingIron will probably call me a ******bag for that sentence). Like someone else said, it is the same as an insurance policy. Manufacturers also take into account the return they can earn on your money during the time between when you pay for the warranty and when warranty expense is incurred.

Our skid steer/CTL extended warranties come in 4 forms - commercial, rental, governmental, and forestry/severe duty. They can cover: engine; powertrain; powertrain and hydraulics; or full machine. The maximum commercial full machine warranty is 5 years/5000 hours. The maximum severe duty full machine warranty is 3 years/5000 hours. The increase in cost of a severe duty warranty over a commercial warranty with the same year/hour limit is roughly 50%. Only the full machine warranty has a deductible ($200, applies to all non-powertrain repairs).
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  #53  
Old 12-07-2009, 07:47 PM
Digdeep Digdeep is offline
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Originally Posted by bobcat_ron View Post
Cat is having issues with the 4 liters now, they are Cat painted Perkins, since Perkins went away with the sleeved blocks, nothing but problems, it all starts with oil burning.
The company we hire for crushing has a little Cat/Perkins 6 banger, he burns about 5 gallons of oil every 2 weeks, and the engine is only 2 years old.
So Ron...are you telling me that CAT is having problems with their:
Backhoes (4 models)
Every model of CAT Telehandler (8 models)
D3
D4
D5
Wheeled excavators- M313D/M315D
914G
IT14

That's quite a few machines that all use the 4.4L CAT branded "Perkins" engines.

Not to mention all of the other OEMs that use the same engine.

Phooey!!!
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  #54  
Old 12-07-2009, 07:54 PM
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ksss ksss is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeereMan85 View Post
I can't speak for anyone else (although I'm sure the following is true of everyone), but I can say with the utmost certainty that Deere will not void your warranty solely because your repairs exceed the cost of the warranty. Warranty prices operate on the law of large numbers: that is, it can safely be assumed that if the statistical pool is large enough, catastrophic occurrences can be accurately predicted through actuarial methods (SellingIron will probably call me a ******bag for that sentence). Like someone else said, it is the same as an insurance policy. Manufacturers also take into account the return they can earn on your money during the time between when you pay for the warranty and when warranty expense is incurred.

Our skid steer/CTL extended warranties come in 4 forms - commercial, rental, governmental, and forestry/severe duty. They can cover: engine; powertrain; powertrain and hydraulics; or full machine. The maximum commercial full machine warranty is 5 years/5000 hours. The maximum severe duty full machine warranty is 3 years/5000 hours. The increase in cost of a severe duty warranty over a commercial warranty with the same year/hour limit is roughly 50%. Only the full machine warranty has a deductible ($200, applies to all non-powertrain repairs).
Sounds much like CASE's deal. There is no way they are going to cancel your warranty because you exceeded what you paid in. That is crazy talk. I have seen CAT put you in another machine.

We were talking 5/5 and that is available. I just liked the 5/3 for myself better since I don't keep them that long and 6500 was plenty of money as it was. Going to 11K for a 465 is getting a little high. But yes, you break a switch and it gets fixed as long as you did not hit the switch with a rock and break it.
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  #55  
Old 12-07-2009, 08:24 PM
Digdeep Digdeep is offline
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Originally Posted by ksss View Post
Sounds much like CASE's deal. There is no way they are going to cancel your warranty because you exceeded what you paid in. That is crazy talk. I have seen CAT put you in another machine.

We were talking 5/5 and that is available. I just liked the 5/3 for myself better since I don't keep them that long and 6500 was plenty of money as it was. Going to 11K for a 465 is getting a little high. But yes, you break a switch and it gets fixed as long as you did not hit the switch with a rock and break it.
All good points. Many people know this but some seem to confuse warranty and insurance. Probably 100% of the OEM machines sold come with a standard "warranty" for about one year, and some duration of hours (some unlimited), some engines can have up to two years of standard warranty (a few may have 3). I think the confusion lies with the "extended warranties" which are mostly pusrchased either by the customer, included in the price (paid by the dealer), or offered by the OEM as a special/promotion (paid for by the OEM) and these start on the first day that the standard factory warranty expires- thus, as an example the 3yrs/5000hours -which is really 2 extra years and some amount of max hoursif the factory warranty was 1 year (1yr+2yrs=3yrs). These are a one time insurance policy purchase (through an private insurance company that specializes in equipment- one being EPG Insurance) for the duration spelled out (3yrs/3000hrs, 5yrs/5000hrs, etc.), and they can cover engines, powertrains, bumper to bumper (read the small print on these ones because most of the stuff we would consider covered isn't), or some combination, usually powertrain includes engines, pumps, and drive motors.

I'm not aware of any "limit" that will void an "extended warranty" (actualy an insurance policy), but like any "insurance", it isn't uncommon to see something excluded from the coverage. "Wear items" come to mind like rollers, hoses, cylinders, etc. This is where it is extremely important to read the small print, especially on bumper to bumper coverages because they really don't cover much. Powertrain coverages provide the best value for the money. Sorry to be long winded.
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  #56  
Old 12-07-2009, 08:50 PM
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stuvecorp stuvecorp is offline
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Interesting, I like hearing the viewpoints from the salesman. I am able to justify the monthly payment of newer equipment as long as I don't have to pay for repairs. The extra warranties are attractive but if you take care of your equipment and are not in a severe duty type environment they likely would never benefit. How about service calls? Would they be included to fix whatever may be wrong? I guess a lot would depend on the fine print.

I have a CNH Advantage card/account and I can use to put parts or repairs on and then pay off at my convenience if money is tight. It has been priceless for me.
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  #57  
Old 12-07-2009, 10:15 PM
AWJ Services AWJ Services is offline
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Post the whole warranty with all fine print included.

Even the factory warranty is voidable.
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  #58  
Old 12-07-2009, 10:31 PM
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DeereMan85 DeereMan85 is offline
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No one is saying it's not voidable - just saying they won't void it simply because you exceed the cost of the warranty. It's much more common for Deere to pay for things that according to the warranty they don't have to than vice-versa. There are many situations where I wouldn't pay if it were up to me but Deere steps up anyway.
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  #59  
Old 12-07-2009, 10:42 PM
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bobcat_ron bobcat_ron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digdeep View Post
So Ron...are you telling me that CAT is having problems with their:
Backhoes (4 models)
Every model of CAT Telehandler (8 models)
D3
D4
D5
Wheeled excavators- M313D/M315D
914G
IT14

That's quite a few machines that all use the 4.4L CAT branded "Perkins" engines.

Not to mention all of the other OEMs that use the same engine.

Phooey!!!
Only a hand full are Cat branded, the D3-5 dozers are true Cat engines, our D4 is a true Cat engine and other series.
The smaller compactors are Mitsubishi Cat branded, the bigger compactors (CS563-573) are Cats, TLB's are Mitsubishi. The older 4.4 versions are Perkins, but halfway through the production, Cat had to switch, ask anyone with a 4.4, if they say they burned a lot of oil before 1000 hours, it's a Perkins.
Mitsubishi, Perkins and true Cat 6 cylinder engines have a distinct sound when idling, that's how you can tell them apart.

I will tell you this, a member here that has very deep ties to Cat, mentioned to me in a PM that Cat has discontinued their deal with Perkins, their engines literally "explode" with the TIER regs now, they can't take the power that's needed to get the emissions down (we all know that engines work harder now due to the TIER regs) so the new small frame skid steers will be all Mitsubishi.
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  #60  
Old 12-07-2009, 10:48 PM
AWJ Services AWJ Services is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeereMan85 View Post
I can't speak for anyone else (although I'm sure the following is true of everyone), but I can say with the utmost certainty that Deere will not void your warranty solely because your repairs exceed the cost of the warranty. Warranty prices operate on the law of large numbers: that is, it can safely be assumed that if the statistical pool is large enough, catastrophic occurrences can be accurately predicted through actuarial methods (SellingIron will probably call me a ******bag for that sentence). Like someone else said, it is the same as an insurance policy. Manufacturers also take into account the return they can earn on your money during the time between when you pay for the warranty and when warranty expense is incurred.

Our skid steer/CTL extended warranties come in 4 forms - commercial, rental, governmental, and forestry/severe duty. They can cover: engine; powertrain; powertrain and hydraulics; or full machine. The maximum commercial full machine warranty is 5 years/5000 hours. The maximum severe duty full machine warranty is 3 years/5000 hours. The increase in cost of a severe duty warranty over a commercial warranty with the same year/hour limit is roughly 50%. Only the full machine warranty has a deductible ($200, applies to all non-powertrain repairs).
So if a large number of customers us there machines in a fashion that causes a failure rate above and beyond what is anticipated resulting in high warranty costs what will happen then?
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