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  #21  
Old 01-04-2010, 11:12 AM
gregory gregory is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAlmaroad View Post
Karl or Ric:
Does either of you know whether or not the "Celsius" is available or if not any word when. Seems like a product that will help with the Dallisgrass in St. Augustine. According to the label, we may have missed the window for the Dallisgrass. Thanks
roy, i think it is out but like ric said none of the suppliers have it down here i am sure they can order it ....
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  #22  
Old 01-04-2010, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAlmaroad View Post
Karl or Ric:
Does either of you know whether or not the "Celsius" is available or if not any word when. Seems like a product that will help with the Dallisgrass in St. Augustine. According to the label, we may have missed the window for the Dallisgrass. Thanks
Roy

Last week after Xmas I pulled up my TO WATCH LIST and checked out several Chemicals. Celsius WG had a Residential label now. I started calling suppliers to find it and a Price. None of my supplier had or even knew about Celsius. Bayer doesn't have it listed yet on their website. I will be calling the regional Bayer Rep this week to try and find out the story on it. If I find any thing I will get back to you.

As for my Proprietary Bermuda Control in St Augustine, Sorry I plan to keep it proprietary. But I will be happy to sub contract from anyone on the west coast of Florida under certain conditions. It is not a cheap treatment.
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  #23  
Old 01-04-2010, 08:08 PM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
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It has received a federal EPA number, now each state must approve or ban the product. That is the fun part. Many products people take for granted in the rest of the US never make it to NY, HI or CA. I am biting my nails that the DOA does not declare the iodosulfuron or thiencarbazone-methyl portion of Celsius a water pollutant. Dicamba is a ground water pollutant, however other than the seed corn producers and myself, no one really applies much of it. Monsanto, etc has a lot of pull.
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  #24  
Old 01-05-2010, 08:40 AM
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ted putnam ted putnam is offline
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Ric, Greendoctor
A question for you...

When measuring these specialty chemicals and mixing them together at such ultra low rates are you combining them in a pre slurry/mix and then measuring that mix?? Years ago when I worked at Chemlawn, we would mix MCPA,Turflon,and a chemical called Breakthrough(no longer made). Premeasured amounts of these would be mixed with water in a 2.5 gal jug. We would then measure 390mls of this premix and add to the prescribed amount of carrier. We called this "3-way". It made it much easier to measure and use in the field. It was used for wild violets and Buttonweed control. This was the only thing we had that would control these 2 troublesome weeds. Is this how you are using these chems??? Just wondered
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  #25  
Old 01-05-2010, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted putnam View Post
Ric, Greendoctor
A question for you...

When measuring these specialty chemicals and mixing them together at such ultra low rates are you combining them in a pre slurry/mix and then measuring that mix?? Years ago when I worked at Chemlawn, we would mix MCPA,Turflon,and a chemical called Breakthrough(no longer made). Premeasured amounts of these would be mixed with water in a 2.5 gal jug. We would then measure 390mls of this premix and add to the prescribed amount of carrier. We called this "3-way". It made it much easier to measure and use in the field. It was used for wild violets and Buttonweed control. This was the only thing we had that would control these 2 troublesome weeds. Is this how you are using these chems??? Just wondered
Ted

If I am following you. What you are doing is first mixing a larger batch of actives and Low amount of carrier. Then measuring that Premix and adding to the amount of Carrier needed to do that treatment area. There are several advantages to doing that. First the larger volume of premix is easier to get the correct ratio of chemicals, than say a gallon or smaller mix. Second you only have one product to deal with in the field making handling it more idiot proof. The disadvantage is the Premix going bad if not used before it might go bad. Of course if the Premix is wrong, there can be a lot of damage done also.

It a way I do something similar. But it is because I have a Chemical injector on my straight Insecticide truck. I will premix my insecticide and surfactant and keep it in a 2.5 gallon jug locked in my Chem box so I can refill my injector tank in the field. BTW I keep two different insecticides ready to go. One which has a residual and the other which is a fast knock down. Every so often I have to deal with Bees and want something that kills them dead on contact. I love the injector for many reason. It saves me money on un-used chemicals and I can switch products quickly without having to clean a tank. The disadvantage is I can not spray a lot of chemicals or a loaded mix. But this is not my lawn truck and is used for structural type pesticide applications of straight insecticide.

The reason I don't premix herbicides for use in the field is because I first inspect the treatment area and custom mix to it. True I use the same mix on most treatment sites. But say a yard has a lot of sedge, I will up my rate compared to a yard with very little sedge.
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"TG doesn't give a rats ass about being "Responsible" as long as sales/production quotas are met. That's it in a nutshell. A recipe for disaster IMO." Ted Putnam 2/28/14

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  #26  
Old 01-05-2010, 11:00 AM
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ted putnam ted putnam is offline
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You followed me correctly. I think at that time it was used low use rates as well as "idiotproof". I saw many come and go in 5 yrs. Idiots and guys that couldn't "hack it". We used the premix product pretty quickly because 70% of the lawns around here have buttonweed to some degree. The chemical injector is a good idea in some situations but in mine it would be an expensive piece of equipment rarely used. Use in a backpack/ handsprayer situation was more my thoughts. I just thought carrying sensitve scales to measure ultra low weights and miniscule volumes could become very inconvenient. I do carry scales in my truck and have gotten some funny looks when weighing DF's, DG's and WP's in the field. I'll bet the cops would think it was real funny if I ever get pulled over. With my luck, I'd get strip searched...
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  #27  
Old 01-05-2010, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted putnam View Post
You followed me correctly. I think at that time it was used low use rates as well as "idiotproof". I saw many come and go in 5 yrs. Idiots and guys that couldn't "hack it". We used the premix product pretty quickly because 70% of the lawns around here have buttonweed to some degree. The chemical injector is a good idea in some situations but in mine it would be an expensive piece of equipment rarely used. Use in a backpack/ handsprayer situation was more my thoughts. I just thought carrying sensitve scales to measure ultra low weights and miniscule volumes could become very inconvenient. I do carry scales in my truck and have gotten some funny looks when weighing DF's, DG's and WP's in the field. I'll bet the cops would think it was real funny if I ever get pulled over. With my luck, I'd get strip searched...
Ted

http://www.chemilizer.com/

I used the HN 55 model for $ 300.00 and it works well at a very affordable price. But isn't for everyone. The last time I posted about this injector I had several member PM me about it. I believe they all gave up on the idea because it didn't fill their need. In my case I use it mostly with straight insecticide and it has worked out well. I carry fresh water only in my tank and can refill at any time without mixing chemicals. What I don't use at the end of the day wasn't mixed and doesn't go bad until I use that truck again a day or a week later. But I am trying to move my market to the high margin Structural Pest Control market and use the injector for that.

As for mixing herbicides in the field. 4th Generation Products like Quicksilver and Dismiss can be a PITA to mix right in a Back Pack. Which addresses your original question. No I have not premixed Herbicides for field use. I would think from past experience they CAN go bad if not used quickly depending on the Mix.
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"TG doesn't give a rats ass about being "Responsible" as long as sales/production quotas are met. That's it in a nutshell. A recipe for disaster IMO." Ted Putnam 2/28/14

You can lead a Donkey to water but you can't make the Jackass Drink

"As Americans you have the right to be stupid." John Kerry

"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” John Wayne.
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  #28  
Old 01-05-2010, 11:47 AM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
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The new generation of herbicides might not lend themselves very well to being thrown into a gallon of water to be used as a premix. You can make a premix with triazine herbicides, dicamba, 2,4-D, or Turflon. Those products are stable for weeks in water. That is the reason why they are in the crosshairs of the EPA and other regulatory agencies. The new sulfonylurea herbicides can break down in a matter of hours if stored in water. Less environmental hazard, but a little less convenient for the ones looking for "idiotproof". I mix all my herbicides for the individual lawn. For the reason above, as well as the prospect of having leftover tank mix that cannot be applied to the next lawn. There are 5 different species of warm season turf grass here. What is safe to use on one might totally kill the other.
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  #29  
Old 01-05-2010, 12:11 PM
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ted putnam ted putnam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
The new generation of herbicides might not lend themselves very well to being thrown into a gallon of water to be used as a premix. You can make a premix with triazine herbicides, dicamba, 2,4-D, or Turflon. Those products are stable for weeks in water. That is the reason why they are in the crosshairs of the EPA and other regulatory agencies. The new sulfonylurea herbicides can break down in a matter of hours if stored in water. Less environmental hazard, but a little less convenient for the ones looking for "idiotproof". I mix all my herbicides for the individual lawn. For the reason above, as well as the prospect of having leftover tank mix that cannot be applied to the next lawn. There are 5 different species of warm season turf grass here. What is safe to use on one might totally kill the other.
I'm not looking for idiotproof as much as convenience/time saving. The few idiots I know would never be able to come up with a premix. I was also thinking of use in hand sprayers for the same reasons you stated. I also deal with 5 types of warm season grasses in multiple cultivars. All have varying degrees of tolerance to certain chemicals. A pre-mix would allow a more user friendly way to mix an "as needed" amount.
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  #30  
Old 01-05-2010, 01:21 PM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
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It would be time saving to have things premixed, however I think about efficacy and applying a given product to a lawn that it does not need. Sure, I can come up with a mix for each type of grass, but the idea of dispensing what a lawn does not need is not how I work. If something costs $100 an ounce, it is not that expensive if I am only using it where it is absolutely needed and that ounce takes a year to use up.
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