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Old 02-08-2010, 05:00 PM
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wanting "niagara falls" is not gonna happen with 8000 gph. that is a sissy homeowner flow. our minimum we use on most backyard waterfall apps is 14,000 gph centrigugal pump. when people want a lot of water, especially on a fall that is 5' wide, you will want to step up to a 220v, but check the calculations online. there are many sites that will tell you how much gph you will need on a 5' wide fall and how many inches in height the water will be. i have the chart, but its in one of my trucks and i am too lazy to go look. good luck, rent a big decent size excavator and make sure you get one with a thumb.
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Old 02-08-2010, 05:47 PM
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Using the calculators 'on-line', an 8,000 gph pump will give a flow depth of 2/3 inch and a 14,000 gph pump will give a flow depth of 1.0 inch or 50% more. One must figure the difference in cost to get that extra 1/3 inch which, by the way, equates to only roughly 18 more gallons per minute per foot of weir width.
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Old 02-08-2010, 06:44 PM
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and 50% more flow is fairly noticable. also, they are much higher quality construction, and the price of a high volume centrifugal pump vs. a submersible is not much different. longer life, same price, easier to maintain...sounds like a no brainer.
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Old 02-08-2010, 08:21 PM
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Remember we are talking about a Pond, not a Pondless. Yes, this is a no-brainer for experienced members of our industry, but for a DIY it can be a nightmare tying in an intake for an external pump to a lined pond and keep all plumbing concealed. He should have a skimmer. We are talking bulkhead fittings which are OK tied to a skimmer box, but can be difficult for the best of us when attached directly to the liner. This is the extra expense that I was referring to, primarily in time and worry. Cost is not always measured in just dollars and cents.
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Old 02-08-2010, 08:48 PM
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STL Ponds and Waterfalls STL Ponds and Waterfalls is offline
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First off welcome to a fellow blue blood. Sweet Galaxy! I would downsize that big of a waterfall with a smaller slope like that. You can make it work and look nice but it will take a lot of dirt and big boulders as mentioned. As Twitchy said Aquascapesinc.com is a good company and they have a headquarters in Cananda. I thought it was in Ontario, but I'm not sure. A pump that size will be pretty hefty in your monthly electric bill. A 10,000 gph pump is usually around $90-$100 a month american.
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Old 02-08-2010, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadpole View Post
Remember we are talking about a Pond, not a Pondless. Yes, this is a no-brainer for experienced members of our industry, but for a DIY it can be a nightmare tying in an intake for an external pump to a lined pond and keep all plumbing concealed. He should have a skimmer. We are talking bulkhead fittings which are OK tied to a skimmer box, but can be difficult for the best of us when attached directly to the liner. This is the extra expense that I was referring to, primarily in time and worry. Cost is not always measured in just dollars and cents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by STL Ponds and Waterfalls View Post
First off welcome to a fellow blue blood. Sweet Galaxy! I would downsize that big of a waterfall with a smaller slope like that. You can make it work and look nice but it will take a lot of dirt and big boulders as mentioned. As Twitchy said Aquascapesinc.com is a good company and they have a headquarters in Cananda. I thought it was in Ontario, but I'm not sure. A pump that size will be pretty hefty in your monthly electric bill. A 10,000 gph pump is usually around $90-$100 a month american.
at what depth do the ponds you build fall under the vgb law? the last commercial pond i built had to be under 2' total depth, 18" of water, plumbed with dual suction and have a non climb fence to keep the public from easily accessing the water.

in short without following these guidlines i would have been required to install a vaccum release switch.
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Old 02-08-2010, 11:41 PM
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Am not quite sure what you mean by commercial pond, Locally, the county has no restrictions on ponds for residential. The city has , as far as I know, nothing on ponds either, but a swimming facility over,I believe, 3 feet deep requires a fence, I think Lap Pools are exempt because they are shallow. But this is what is expected in this backward section of the country. When I first applied for a business license, they did not have a category for Water Features, so they licensed me as a Tree Surgeon. Go figure the rationale behind that decision. They still don't have a classification for me but they changed me to Landscaper just last year. I guess I got a promotion.

When I started in business in 1996, there were NO ordinances on the books concerning ponds on the Federal, State, County or City level. To this day, a permit is NOT required to build a Water Feature in my area.

Most Retention/Detention ponds in this area do not have fences.

Last edited by tadpole; 02-08-2010 at 11:46 PM. Reason: Added text
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Old 02-09-2010, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by tadpole View Post
Am not quite sure what you mean by commercial pond, Locally, the county has no restrictions on ponds for residential. The city has , as far as I know, nothing on ponds either, but a swimming facility over,I believe, 3 feet deep requires a fence, I think Lap Pools are exempt because they are shallow. But this is what is expected in this backward section of the country. When I first applied for a business license, they did not have a category for Water Features, so they licensed me as a Tree Surgeon. Go figure the rationale behind that decision. They still don't have a classification for me but they changed me to Landscaper just last year. I guess I got a promotion.

When I started in business in 1996, there were NO ordinances on the books concerning ponds on the Federal, State, County or City level. To this day, a permit is NOT required to build a Water Feature in my area.

Most Retention/Detention ponds in this area do not have fences.
where i live in northern ca. the city considers anything that is open to public access commercial and it gives them them great satisfaction to tell everyone involved with these projects how important the building departments are.

i've noticed that pool builders start in ca, go broke and move to fl, come back to ca go broke again then move to texas. texas must eat them because i never see them again.

i'm curious bout the anti-entrapment / suction issues, here if it's a water feature or pool the vgb comes into play, ponds don't unless they can be termed attractive nuisenses.

other parts of ca may interpet the code differently
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Old 02-09-2010, 11:34 AM
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It appears that although the bylaw concerning pools is 18" depth, ponds and waterfalls come into a grey area, meaning that a ruling is made depending on location, ability of public access and I am thinking how much "palm grease" is required.
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  #20  
Old 02-09-2010, 11:43 AM
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All our ponds are for residential homes and the depth is usually 2ft unless it is designed for more depth than we will only build in a fenced backyard. If a fence is not an option I will talk to the city and a lawyer to determine what is the best option. The problem most cities/counties don't have a clue where to look for this question.
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