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Old 02-11-2010, 10:43 PM
Ohiojohn Ohiojohn is offline
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Location: Grafton, OH
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Need help with 455-D stalling out

I have a 2000 455-D that will start and run OK, will idle at low or high throttle for as long as I want, but as soon as I press the forward drive pedal, it stalls out. This is a dead shut off where the glow plug light comes back on and the engine will recover if I pull my foot off fast enough. My local TORO shop mechanic thought it might be safety switch related and suggested that route. I located the seat switch and it appears to be OK. I unplugged it and jumpered out the connector and there was no difference, it still stalled. Any advice? As a side note; I have owned this unit for 5 years and use it to cut my 11 acre estate and have had no problems until now. I bought a 72" snow blower along with the 455D and this is the first time I have used it. I did my driveway twice and on the second time is when the unit started stalling.
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:52 AM
The Toro Company The Toro Company is offline
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John;
From what you describe, it still sounds like the seat safety circuit is still the issue.
The ETR (Fuel) solenoid is powered through 2 seperate circuits; either the traction switch circuit or the seat switch circuit.

The power feed to the ETR (Fuel) Solenoid runs through the traction switch when the transmission is in neutral. Once you step on the pedal (forward or reverse) the traction switch will open and the power would then be fed via the seat switch circuit. Since the tractor starts and runs when in neutral, we know this circuit is good. So that leaves the seat switch circuit to review.
The electrical circuits are all laid out in the Service manual. If you do not have one, you will need to contact your local distributor to get it. We do offer free manuals on our web site, however the GM 455 is out of production so the manual is no longer offered.

As far as the snowblower goes, I do not know how it may interact because you did not provide the manufacturer. It may fit on the 455, but we (Toro) did not produce a blower for that unit. One question I would have in relation to the blower is does the tractor shut off with the PTO engaged or disengaged? If it shuts off in either position, I would then direct you to the tractor to discover the root problem.

I hope this at least helps you get a start on problem diagnosis. You have "jumped" the seat switch, but now it's time to get diagrams and the DVOM out to dig further.

Eric Baumeister
Toro Commercial Service
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:43 PM
Ohiojohn Ohiojohn is offline
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thanks

Eric,
THanks for the quick reply. The snowblower is an Accra unit made in WI and the unit will engage while sitting still just like it should by flipping the PTO switch. The traction unit will shut down on movement whether or not the PTO is engaged. My unit does have around 5500 hours on it and the timing belt was replaced when I bought it @ 5100 hours. I went by visual appearances only on the switch. With the plunger out, should the switch be open or closed? If the switch checks out defective, that will be an easy remedy, but if the switch is good, what else in the circuit could go bad that is replaceable?

One more bit of info that might help you help me. Upon talking to the shop tech, He informed me that the traction unit should shut off if the motion pedal is depressed. I did not know this and my unit will move if the pedal is pressed while off of the seat. I looked for a jumpered out switch, but found none. The connector was attached as it should have been. This has me wondering that whatever was happening to let my traction unit move like that is behind it not moving now.

John Harbert
Grafton, Ohio
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Old 02-12-2010, 06:40 PM
The Toro Company The Toro Company is offline
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John;
Issue does not appear to be associated with the attachment (blower) so you can cross that part off you list.

Your shop tech is correct. If you depress the traction pedal and the operator is out of the seat, the unit should shut off. So it sounds to me like the seat switch circuit was altered, but the alteration has failed. At any rate, I would consider this a big safety issue.
I really hate to divert you at this point, but reality is that in order to easily trace the issue out you should have a Service manual, or at least an Operators manual. Also, your local authorized Toro Commercial product Distributor is well versed in fixing GM 455's. You can contact them via their web site: http://www.centuryequip.com/ . This may be the best, safest way to get you up and running.

Eric Baumeister
Toro commercial Service
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:00 PM
Ohiojohn Ohiojohn is offline
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thanks

Eric,
Thanks for all the info and I agree on the seat switch. I did not like the fact that the unit would move while off of the seat and will welcome the correct function when done. As with my little Sears tractor and it's electric blade clutch, I got in the habit of turning off the blades (PTO) if not sitting in the seat with my 455D. If the safety seat switch is working properly, would getting out of the seat shut off the PTO for the mower deck also?
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Old 02-15-2010, 05:23 PM
The Toro Company The Toro Company is offline
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John;
If the system was working correctly, if you got out of the seat (with PTO engaged OR traction out of neutral) the engine would shut off. You would then need to re-start. In other words, it will act just like it acts now!

Eric Baumeister
The Toro Company

Last edited by The Toro Company; 02-15-2010 at 05:24 PM. Reason: Added ending
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Old 02-15-2010, 05:59 PM
Ohiojohn Ohiojohn is offline
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Thanks agin Eric for all the info. Although I found out quite by accident that the traction unit would move while being out of the seat, from day one I was aware that the blades would stay engaged if I left the seat. We have a very proactive safety awareness program at work and the ability to get off the mower while the blades were still running really stood out as a danger especially since the 455D is really industrial equipment. I made it my personal policy to hit the PTO toggle switch before dismounting the mower. It never crossed my mind that something was wrong with this until this thread and discussing the seat safety switch. I am going to take the switch into work tomorrow and have one of our electricians check it out with a voltmeter to see if it is opening and closing with the plunger action.

I have looked at all of the wiring and cannot see where anything is jumpered to eliminate the seat switch, so I can only assume that with 5000 hours on the clock, the switch was stuck in the "sit on it" position and for some reason it is now in the "off the seat" position all the time. The voltmeter should show if it is functional and hope a new switch from Century will fix the problem as getting it into them at this time of year will be nearly impossible and I have more snow in the way that will need removed.

John
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:11 AM
Ohiojohn Ohiojohn is offline
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Location: Grafton, OH
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Update - success!

Eric,
I thought I'd make this last post and update you on my success. As of late this evening, I have a running and moving 455D with a properly working seat safety system. If I am not on the seat and engage the PTO, it dies. If I am not on the seat and try to move the unit, it dies. When on the seat, everything works as normal.

I started out yesterday by having one of the electricians that I work with test the switch and it was/is OK. I told him of the problem I was having and what the safety circuit consisted of and he suggested going right to the relay. After work today, I removed the relay and took it apart and cleaned the contacts. I put it back in the system and no improvement. I then jammed the relay in the closed position and re-installed it and then the traction unit would move as normal without shutting off. Only problem was the PTO would not work. I took the relay back off and removed the shim so it was functional again and re-installed only to find that it was back to stalling when the pedal was depressed and still no PTO. I then went inside the control box and was looking for corrosion when I noticed a burned out 5 amp fuse while checking them. I replaced the fuse, started the unit and what do you know, everything workd as it is supposed to.

I am confused as to what actually happened since the only real thing that was done was clean the relay contacts and replace the dead fuse. I did have to adjust the seat switch to make it taller as it was not making contact with the seat, a fact that never mattered before as the seat circuit was not working. I still have no idea how or what made it possible to use the traction unit for 5 years with the seat safety system offline. I found no jumpers or any evidence of tampering with the wiring. All I know now is the system works as designed and it only cost me a 20¢ fuse.

Thanks for the info, it got me thinking and pointed in the right direction.


John
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