Register free!

The Green Industry's Resource Center



Reply
 
Thread Tools   Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-06-2009, 06:05 PM
QwikDraw's Avatar
QwikDraw QwikDraw is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 50
Another ASV failure

I posted this over at TBN but I thought I'd post here too.

Mowing some ROW this past week with the Ammbusher DL66. Engine oil light on comes flickers a bit and goes off. 10 minutes later I notice it comes on and stays on. Shut her down and exit cab. Much smoke coming from engine compartment. Go get truck, start machine drive 20 feet on to trailer. Drive 3 hours home. Next morning look in engine compartment, see missing bolt from engine mount. Drop bottom panel, find bolt. Call three different mechanics and ask if engine mounting bolt could possible go through the block and drain engine oil..all three say no way. Call ASV ask same question...why yes...one bolt does go through the block and will drain the oil out. So you are telling me if an engine mount comes loose (which isn't that uncommon) I drain out my engine oil. Answer "yes". I replace bolt fill 5 quarts of oil that had drained and start engine. It seems to idle fine. Today start machine to move around some mowers and as soon as I idle up it starts rapping and smoke comes out of crank case vent tube...99.9% sure motor is cooked.

Now do I spend the money to fix it or let it rot in the corner of the yard?

This machine has cost no less then $10,000 in break downs this year and if I spend another $8000 (a guess) for a motor I can run it for another 2 months before I need another $6000 set of tracks. I still owe $25,000 and it has a value of $0 right now.

The short story is unless you charge $250 per hour this machine is not profitable. I have worked very hard over the past few years and most of my profits have gone to fixing this machine and right now I owe another 25k that I haven't made yet to come out even and that's after I pay for the motor.
__________________
TRLandworks

2010 Takeuchi TL250
2006 ASV RC100 - Fecon Bullhog, Ammbusher DL66, Bradco rotary, Bradco Root Rake Grapple, Forks, Bucket
2008 New Holland T5070 - Bush Hog 2715L
2005 Daewoo 175 LCV - Denis CIMAF 125D Brush Cutter
2007 Kenworth T800 - Neville Built Lowboy
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-06-2009, 06:37 PM
AWJ Services AWJ Services is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ga
Posts: 4,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by QwikDraw View Post
I posted this over at TBN but I thought I'd post here too.

Mowing some ROW this past week with the Ammbusher DL66. Engine oil light on comes flickers a bit and goes off. 10 minutes later I notice it comes on and stays on. Shut her down and exit cab. Much smoke coming from engine compartment. Go get truck, start machine drive 20 feet on to trailer. Drive 3 hours home. Next morning look in engine compartment, see missing bolt from engine mount. Drop bottom panel, find bolt. Call three different mechanics and ask if engine mounting bolt could possible go through the block and drain engine oil..all three say no way. Call ASV ask same question...why yes...one bolt does go through the block and will drain the oil out. So you are telling me if an engine mount comes loose (which isn't that uncommon) I drain out my engine oil. Answer "yes". I replace bolt fill 5 quarts of oil that had drained and start engine. It seems to idle fine. Today start machine to move around some mowers and as soon as I idle up it starts rapping and smoke comes out of crank case vent tube...99.9% sure motor is cooked.

Now do I spend the money to fix it or let it rot in the corner of the yard?

This machine has cost no less then $10,000 in break downs this year and if I spend another $8000 (a guess) for a motor I can run it for another 2 months before I need another $6000 set of tracks. I still owe $25,000 and it has a value of $0 right now.

The short story is unless you charge $250 per hour this machine is not profitable. I have worked very hard over the past few years and most of my profits have gone to fixing this machine and right now I owe another 25k that I haven't made yet to come out even and that's after I pay for the motor.
If you do not mind would you please post hours on the machine.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-06-2009, 06:40 PM
QwikDraw's Avatar
QwikDraw QwikDraw is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 50
1875 hours. 33 months old.
__________________
TRLandworks

2010 Takeuchi TL250
2006 ASV RC100 - Fecon Bullhog, Ammbusher DL66, Bradco rotary, Bradco Root Rake Grapple, Forks, Bucket
2008 New Holland T5070 - Bush Hog 2715L
2005 Daewoo 175 LCV - Denis CIMAF 125D Brush Cutter
2007 Kenworth T800 - Neville Built Lowboy
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-06-2009, 06:40 PM
ksss's Avatar
ksss ksss is online now
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rigby, Idaho
Posts: 6,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by QwikDraw View Post
I posted this over at TBN but I thought I'd post here too.

Mowing some ROW this past week with the Ammbusher DL66. Engine oil light on comes flickers a bit and goes off. 10 minutes later I notice it comes on and stays on. Shut her down and exit cab. Much smoke coming from engine compartment. Go get truck, start machine drive 20 feet on to trailer. Drive 3 hours home. Next morning look in engine compartment, see missing bolt from engine mount. Drop bottom panel, find bolt. Call three different mechanics and ask if engine mounting bolt could possible go through the block and drain engine oil..all three say no way. Call ASV ask same question...why yes...one bolt does go through the block and will drain the oil out. So you are telling me if an engine mount comes loose (which isn't that uncommon) I drain out my engine oil. Answer "yes". I replace bolt fill 5 quarts of oil that had drained and start engine. It seems to idle fine. Today start machine to move around some mowers and as soon as I idle up it starts rapping and smoke comes out of crank case vent tube...99.9% sure motor is cooked.

Now do I spend the money to fix it or let it rot in the corner of the yard?

This machine has cost no less then $10,000 in break downs this year and if I spend another $8000 (a guess) for a motor I can run it for another 2 months before I need another $6000 set of tracks. I still owe $25,000 and it has a value of $0 right now.

The short story is unless you charge $250 per hour this machine is not profitable. I have worked very hard over the past few years and most of my profits have gone to fixing this machine and right now I owe another 25k that I haven't made yet to come out even and that's after I pay for the motor.

That is terrible. Seems the machine just wont let you get ahead. Hopefully the engine can be rebuilt or perhaps you just cracked the head and save some money. There have been guys on HEF who have shelled the engines in their CAT skid steers and were talking about the cost of the Perkins motors at 10K. I think yours is a Mits. but I don't think 8K would buy one.

I have considered the following idea on my next new purchase.

I am giving serious consideration to buying warranty to 5K hours next time. The reason is, as these things continue to get more electronic, and complicated, the costs are going to go up as well as the fact that we have largely lost the ability to repair them except for the easy things like hoses breaking. The cost for me to have this kind of coverage looks like about 5K. I think that is money well spent and this is why.

Your repair costs are largely fixed. Human error aside, for 5K hours or 5 years you would only have a 100 deductable. It is obvious to me that I will be keeping machines longer now than I ever have, I would imagine that will hold true for others as well. This is a great way to stay on budget.

The coverage stays with the machine, which should improve resale value considerably.

The shop rates are just out of control. This is a way to protect yourself somewhat from 10K surprises like on the ASV above. It could happen to anyones machine. Its a freak deal but very costly obviously.

Both my machines are still under 2K hours but as they get older the costs will start rising. Considering the economy rotating machines every couple years is likely a thing of the past at least until things improve. The extended warranty would provide piece of mind and a type of insurance policy for your checking account.

This suggestion does not help you right now but something to think about on the next machine.
__________________
See us at www.kaiserskidsteer.com

Proudly running CASE and Takeuchi equipment.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-06-2009, 06:47 PM
Sam_French Sam_French is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centerville TN
Posts: 68
To be honest I am speechless. A few things here:

1. Motor DID NOT lockup that is a PLUS!!!!!

2. Do you have another machine to use in the mean time?

4. How long have you had this machine?

Since other repairs are you happy with how the machine operates?

IF SO I would pull the motor, drop the pan and look at the main and rod bearings. Along with the crankshaft. If the crank looks ok. I would put new bearings in, rering the pistons and replace the oil pump. USE LUCAS OIL TREATMENT. Loctite and use lock washer on motor mount bolt. Along with keeping an eye on it. AND USE THAT DUDE till it can't move AN INCH!!!!

Just my thoughts.

Sam
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-06-2009, 06:48 PM
QwikDraw's Avatar
QwikDraw QwikDraw is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 50
It has a Perkins motor.
I am tring to rationalize this and it may be best to take the $8000 (plus $6000 for tracks) and invest in another machine and let this one sit. Even though I still have a monthly payment it would be a fix number with out the huge added cost of running this machine. It sounds crazy but it may be less costly in the long run.

See above. 1875 hours. 33 months old
__________________
TRLandworks

2010 Takeuchi TL250
2006 ASV RC100 - Fecon Bullhog, Ammbusher DL66, Bradco rotary, Bradco Root Rake Grapple, Forks, Bucket
2008 New Holland T5070 - Bush Hog 2715L
2005 Daewoo 175 LCV - Denis CIMAF 125D Brush Cutter
2007 Kenworth T800 - Neville Built Lowboy
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-06-2009, 06:51 PM
QwikDraw's Avatar
QwikDraw QwikDraw is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 50
I need a skid steer for a few days this week and then not untill mid Jan. I will be running the Daewoo 175 and Denis Cimaf for the next three weeks or so.
__________________
TRLandworks

2010 Takeuchi TL250
2006 ASV RC100 - Fecon Bullhog, Ammbusher DL66, Bradco rotary, Bradco Root Rake Grapple, Forks, Bucket
2008 New Holland T5070 - Bush Hog 2715L
2005 Daewoo 175 LCV - Denis CIMAF 125D Brush Cutter
2007 Kenworth T800 - Neville Built Lowboy
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-06-2009, 07:04 PM
ksss's Avatar
ksss ksss is online now
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rigby, Idaho
Posts: 6,977
I did a quick check on IP. The auction prices for the newest 100s that have gone through are here.
http://www.ironplanet.com/jsp/s/item...h=2%2CgotoPage

http://www.ironplanet.com/jsp/s/item...h=2%2CgotoPage


The 08 looks like it has catastrophic internal damage at 380 hours and it still brought 22K.

There are some older 04 models that brought from 12k to 17K.

I would say try and get it to run and dump it. Cut your loses and get it off the books. If it runs and you could get your pay off which is looks like you more than likely could, thats a win. I would not put new tracks on it. Fix the engine and call IP and get the POS out of your yard and more importantly off your books. Paying on machine that just sits is a bad deal. Its only going to depreciate and be worth less and less.
__________________
See us at www.kaiserskidsteer.com

Proudly running CASE and Takeuchi equipment.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-06-2009, 07:13 PM
AWJ Services AWJ Services is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ga
Posts: 4,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksss View Post
That is terrible. Seems the machine just wont let you get ahead. Hopefully the engine can be rebuilt or perhaps you just cracked the head and save some money. There have been guys on HEF who have shelled the engines in their CAT skid steers and were talking about the cost of the Perkins motors at 10K. I think yours is a Mits. but I don't think 8K would buy one.

I have considered the following idea on my next new purchase.

I am giving serious consideration to buying warranty to 5K hours next time. The reason is, as these things continue to get more electronic, and complicated, the costs are going to go up as well as the fact that we have largely lost the ability to repair them except for the easy things like hoses breaking. The cost for me to have this kind of coverage looks like about 5K. I think that is money well spent and this is why.

Your repair costs are largely fixed. Human error aside, for 5K hours or 5 years you would only have a 100 deductable. It is obvious to me that I will be keeping machines longer now than I ever have, I would imagine that will hold true for others as well. This is a great way to stay on budget.

The coverage stays with the machine, which should improve resale value considerably.

The shop rates are just out of control. This is a way to protect yourself somewhat from 10K surprises like on the ASV above. It could happen to anyones machine. Its a freak deal but very costly obviously.

Both my machines are still under 2K hours but as they get older the costs will start rising. Considering the economy rotating machines every couple years is likely a thing of the past at least until things improve. The extended warranty would provide piece of mind and a type of insurance policy for your checking account.

This suggestion does not help you right now but something to think about on the next machine.
Extended warranties are not an absolute guaranty that the machine will always be fixed. It is no more than an insurance policy and believe it or not it can be canceled.


The reality is Skid steers are not made for full time mulching.
This is just another example of a product advertised for a job it is not designed for and sold to a consumer who ends up with a worthless product at his expense.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-06-2009, 07:17 PM
AEL's Avatar
AEL AEL is online now
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,595
What site is tbn?

I agree with ksss. Get the motor so it runs ok and sell it or trade it in. You may as well get something for it instead of letting it sit and paying for it.
__________________
Sean

A.E.L

Land Clearing, Grinding services, Mulch Production, Excavating, Grading

Check out our new YouTube account!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWI...YEpKMXUcrB1jBw
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:12 AM.

Page generated in 0.12078 seconds with 10 queries