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  #81  
Old 03-03-2010, 09:48 AM
Landscraper1's Avatar
Landscraper1 Landscraper1 is online now
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Location: Southeastern Ma.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darryl gesner View Post
Workman's comp is for and only covers employees. My business does not have any employees. No payroll. Zero. Not even me. It's set up as an LLC but for financial purposes it functions as a sole proprietorship.
That's your choice. My business is a S-Corp. I am covered under worker's comp. Under Ma law I have to have worker's comp. on myself. So, I can and have had a claim on myself.

2 years ago, I was trying to remove a blower fan using a 3ft crow bar. The bar slipped and hit my head. Knocked me out, lost a bit of blood, and had a mild concussion. I came out of it ok but, could of been worse. Worker's Comp took care of everything. It's not that I couldn't of taken care of the bills myself, I just felt some security that if it was alot worse, I am covered.
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  #82  
Old 03-03-2010, 10:45 AM
rain man rain man is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: If you sweat you die
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No offence taken. I am also inclined to agree with you in that while you are chasing a few cent you could have been making money.

Our particular reasoning was based on the following: Gas prices fluctuated much more than a few cents per gallon for awhile, we timed the increases and decreases correctly half of the time and broke even when we were wrong, we noticed that some of the gas stations lowered prices much quicker when the market went down while others lingered, the stations we used were on our route and we didn't have to waste time looking.

We are still building and in the past there has been no room for waste so we perhaps scrutinize a dollar savings too closely. Still, it cost us no extra time (except checking the financials on the computer) and we did save money.
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  #83  
Old 03-03-2010, 11:10 AM
BearWise Landscapers's Avatar
BearWise Landscapers BearWise Landscapers is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 456
Saving Money on Workers Compensation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scagmower48 View Post
Shop around for insurance once every couple years or so. The difference could be alot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equipguy View Post
Got rid of comp and collision on my trucks that were paid for, saved about $300 per year on each.

For these points, I would emphasize the importance of using an independent insurance agency. These agencies will have access to multiple insurance carriers and if they are doing their job, they will shop the rates for you every year. For example, we have clients with over 35 different insurance carriers and when the policies of our clients come up for renewal, we send their application to different insurance carriers to make sure they still have the best rates available for their business.

If you are looking to cut costs, then feel free to ask your agent about coverages that can be removed and the premium costs associated with those coverages. Some coverages have a great value and are not worth removing. Here is an example of two coverages on commercial auto policies.



Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybravo8802 View Post
I'm insurance poor-the worker's comp is what really costs out the arse. They also audit you each year to make sure you haven't gone over the $10,000 in payroll-I have to change providers this year because I plan to have a lot more payroll. Basically, I'm a solo guy who hires on an as need basis but I'm about to make the break from being solo. However, they did require worker's comp when I didn't use anyone else-I questioned it.
Johnny Bravo,

Workers' Compensation insurance can be complicated, but there are ways to save money on your policy. When you get a chance, read this article in PRO Magazine about ways landscapers can cut costs on workers compensation insurance.

Let me know if you have any questions about your insurance coverages or ways to cut premium costs on those policies.
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  #84  
Old 03-03-2010, 11:42 AM
BearWise Landscapers's Avatar
BearWise Landscapers BearWise Landscapers is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 456
Workers Compensation Requirements

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybravo8802 View Post
You still have to have work comp., even if you work solo, at least in the commercial realm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darryl gesner View Post
You can't even get workman's comp if you work solo. How can a commercial account require you to have something you can't get? Usually they will accept proof that you're not required to have it or they will accept a "hold harmless" clause in the contract.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybravo8802 View Post
I do 99% commercial and have liability and worker's comp. so I think I may have done this once or twice.It may be different in other states, but in Ga. you cannot..........bid on large commercial properties w/o worker's comp, even if you're working solo. It protects the customer from being sued-I do this everyday full time so I'm not mistaken here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darryl gesner View Post
I can't even get workman's comp insurance becasue I'm an owner/operator, I tried. It's not an option. I'm not an employee...my business has zero employees. Workman's comp is for employees. I can and have still bid on commercial accounts because I am not by law required to have workman's comp insurance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybravo8802 View Post
Worker's comp doesn't cover you, it only covers your employees. You can't get it for yourself-your personal insurance will cover you if something happens to you. Most of the commercial accounts I have are now being required to have proof of worker's comp-daycare, Wal-Mart DC, churches, etc. I'm not sure why you haven't run into that yet. I'm insurance poor-the worker's comp is what really costs out the arse. They also audit you each year to make sure you haven't gone over the $10,000 in payroll-I have to change providers this year because I plan to have a lot more payroll. Basically, I'm a solo guy who hires on an as need basis but I'm about to make the break from being solo. However, they did require worker's comp when I didn't use anyone else-I questioned it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darryl gesner View Post
Exactly. I can't get workmans comp so there's not way I can provide someone with proof of it. I can't sue myself anyway. If I could I'd be rich!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by yardguy28 View Post
i haven't run into commercial accounts requiring workman's comp either.

maybe things are diff. in GA but i've bid and been hired by commercial accounts with no workers comp insurance. infact if what others are saying about solo operators not being able to get workers comp (which makes sense to me) i wouldn't be able to have it myself becasue i'm solo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybravo8802 View Post
The fact is, being solo doesn't really make a difference-I can't explain it.It's just policy for a lot of places to require it for a contractor they hire. Things have really changed and have become more and more costly. Ten years ago, places around here didn't even require liability much less worker's comp. However, they aren't willing to pay you more money for your service!!!You should try working for Wal-Mart DC-I can't even set foot on the property w/o signing in and getting a name tag-You can't even use the restroom w/o a name tag!!!Each employee has to have a tag and pass a safety test before they can work on the property. It's a lot of red tape-the good thing is, they pay quickly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yardguy28 View Post
while i can't speak from experience i find it hard to believe a company would go to those great links with the lawn contractor they hire.

they have no reason to require workers comp. it's not there fault if one of your workers gets hurt using your equipment. all they should be concerned with is paying you for the work they hired you for.

hell i've done commercial work without a contract before. worked out an agreement like i do with my residentials. just a word of mouth agreement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landscraper1 View Post
Yes, you can. If you, as an owner, are covered under worker's comp, you can put in a claim, just like everyone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darryl gesner View Post
Workman's comp is for and only covers employees. My business does not have any employees. No payroll. Zero. Not even me. It's set up as an LLC but for financial purposes it functions as a sole proprietorship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landscraper1 View Post
That's your choice. My business is a S-Corp. I am covered under worker's comp. Under Ma law I have to have worker's comp. on myself. So, I can and have had a claim on myself.

2 years ago, I was trying to remove a blower fan using a 3ft crow bar. The bar slipped and hit my head. Knocked me out, lost a bit of blood, and had a mild concussion. I came out of it ok but, could of been worse. Worker's Comp took care of everything. It's not that I couldn't of taken care of the bills myself, I just felt some security that if it was alot worse, I am covered.



I tried following the discussion above on workers’ compensation insurance. I thought I would chip in with a few pieces of information to consider:

1.) Workers’ compensation insurance is different in each state. It is mandated by state governments and each state has slightly different laws regarding it. You need to be familiar with the laws in your own state.

2.) Many commercial accounts will require workers’ compensation insurance for contractors they hire to do landscape maintenance and other services. This is good for them and if all of your residential, commercial, and other clients knew the importance of it, then they all would require it. When a company hires a contractor and that person or that contractor’s employees are injured working on the property, the company will be protected from a variety of lawsuits if the contractor has workers comp. If the contractor does not have workers comp, then plaintiff attorneys will typically name both the contractor and other company in the lawsuit to be reimbursed for the injury and any missed wages.

3.) In Florida, you are required to purchase workers compensation as a lawn care company when you have more than 3 employees. If you do landscape installation, you are required to purchase it when you hire even one part time employee.

4.) In Florida, an owner can purchase workers’ compensation insurance for himself. About 95% of our clients choose to be exempt from workers’ compensation insurance because they can exclude their own payroll from the premium base. This saves a substantial amount of money and they would use their health insurance coverage instead of workers comp if they get injured.

5.) We write insurance for a few owner/operator landscapers that are required by a jobsite to carry workers compensation insurance and do not have employees. This is a lot cheaper if you have a corporation or LLC. Sole proprietors in Florida cannot exclude themselves from workers compensation coverage. They also have to be rated on the policy with $55,700 of payroll, even if they don’t make that much.

Let me know if you have any additional questions about workers comp insurance. If any of you are located in Florida, then I would be happy to put together quotes for your business. Here are the 2010 workers comp rates in Florida. Here is another article with a historical introduction to workers comp insurance.
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  #85  
Old 03-03-2010, 01:26 PM
yardguy28 yardguy28 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landscraper1 View Post
That's your choice. My business is a S-Corp. I am covered under worker's comp. Under Ma law I have to have worker's comp. on myself. So, I can and have had a claim on myself.

2 years ago, I was trying to remove a blower fan using a 3ft crow bar. The bar slipped and hit my head. Knocked me out, lost a bit of blood, and had a mild concussion. I came out of it ok but, could of been worse. Worker's Comp took care of everything. It's not that I couldn't of taken care of the bills myself, I just felt some security that if it was alot worse, I am covered.
read what is highlighted in red below please. not every state is MA. every states laws are different. you can't get covered under workmans comp in every state. so to say it is his choice is incorrect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BearWise Landscapers View Post
I tried following the discussion above on workers’ compensation insurance. I thought I would chip in with a few pieces of information to consider:

1.) Workers’ compensation insurance is different in each state. It is mandated by state governments and each state has slightly different laws regarding it. You need to be familiar with the laws in your own state.

2.) Many commercial accounts will require workers’ compensation insurance for contractors they hire to do landscape maintenance and other services. This is good for them and if all of your residential, commercial, and other clients knew the importance of it, then they all would require it. When a company hires a contractor and that person or that contractor’s employees are injured working on the property, the company will be protected from a variety of lawsuits if the contractor has workers comp. If the contractor does not have workers comp, then plaintiff attorneys will typically name both the contractor and other company in the lawsuit to be reimbursed for the injury and any missed wages.

3.) In Florida, you are required to purchase workers compensation as a lawn care company when you have more than 3 employees. If you do landscape installation, you are required to purchase it when you hire even one part time employee.

4.) In Florida, an owner can purchase workers’ compensation insurance for himself. About 95% of our clients choose to be exempt from workers’ compensation insurance because they can exclude their own payroll from the premium base. This saves a substantial amount of money and they would use their health insurance coverage instead of workers comp if they get injured.

5.) We write insurance for a few owner/operator landscapers that are required by a jobsite to carry workers compensation insurance and do not have employees. This is a lot cheaper if you have a corporation or LLC. Sole proprietors in Florida cannot exclude themselves from workers compensation coverage. They also have to be rated on the policy with $55,700 of payroll, even if they don’t make that much.

Let me know if you have any additional questions about workers comp insurance. If any of you are located in Florida, then I would be happy to put together quotes for your business. Here are the 2010 workers comp rates in Florida. Here is another article with a historical introduction to workers comp insurance.
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  #86  
Old 03-04-2010, 02:32 AM
Marshman Marshman is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 31
Packing lunch is crucial. I don't take my guys off the clock for lunchbreak so everyone packing a lunch in case we have a descent drive somewhere and eating while in the car on the go is how i try and do it. maybe a little greedy but there cool with it.
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  #87  
Old 03-04-2010, 02:37 AM
fiveoboy01's Avatar
fiveoboy01 fiveoboy01 is offline
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Southern WI
Posts: 2,963
Wow I didn't realize this got to 9 pages, sometimes my email notification doesn't work.

Thanks for the suggestions and discussion on this
__________________
Bill

Originally posted by SLR:
Quote:
you really got off fortunate and lucky 5-0boy1!..imagine if you an her created a little 5boy1,now there's a nicely entangled chaotic toranado vise!
THE VERY BEST SOURCE OF INFO FOR THE GREEN INDUSTRY! ALL YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED!
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  #88  
Old 03-04-2010, 03:04 AM
topsites topsites is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Richmond Virginia
Posts: 21,677
A perfect driving record helps a lot.

Last edited by topsites; 03-04-2010 at 03:11 AM.
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  #89  
Old 03-04-2010, 07:49 AM
David Grass David Grass is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 484
Quote:
Originally Posted by rm25x View Post
Basically, what he is trying to say, is your actually hurting yourself more financially by not using the right tool for the job. His example is showing a $900/month profit using the $10k mower over the $8k mower. So even at $18k (scrapping the $8k mower, not reselling) your payments would be less then the $900/month profit allowing you to make more money even though you have a higher start up cost.... if I am reading it correctly. Makes sense. You have to look at things long term, not just what is it costing you right now.
Exactly, every time you make a dollar more an hour, for the exact same efforts factoring in your return on your investment, you are SAVING a dollar an hour. THere is an old school kind of thinking that borrowing money is NOT a good thing, that getting exactly what you need should be put off, etc etc. That is fine if you are not in business, lol, BUT if you are a biz, you have to let yourself think biz.
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  #90  
Old 03-04-2010, 08:52 AM
Darryl G Darryl G is offline
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Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 7,972
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiveoboy01 View Post
Wow I didn't realize this got to 9 pages, sometimes my email notification doesn't work.

Thanks for the suggestions and discussion on this
Yah well 5 pages of it is petty bickering on where to take a P.
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