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  #51  
Old 03-06-2010, 09:40 AM
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MackCat MackCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digdeep View Post
Sorry Xing, last comment (can't help myself) and I'm done- both definitely have face seals page 2 of the PT80 brochure.
Sorry couldn`t resist. Go to ASV website and pull up parts manuals for PT-80 and look at the parts list for the bogie wheels. I wasn`t refering to metal face seals. look at the Bearings Part #0307-923 Bearing Ball 6207 open. Same old china made bearing that was used in all the older machines. These are not used on the C series undercarriage.
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  #52  
Old 03-06-2010, 09:51 AM
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ProTouch Groundscapes ProTouch Groundscapes is offline
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also remember that the weight distribution of the ASV is ideally suited for its uc whereas Cat is tail heavy. This was one of the contributing factors of a lot of the uc failures Cat was seeing with ASV sourced uc's

to comment on the snow removal aspect, i had to use my rc100 for a bit of snow removal work this winter, which i was not intending to do as i hadnt purchased a snow bucket or pusher for the machine. I was thoroughly impressed by its capabilities after having experienced a wheeled machine in the past. Im positive an 80 could handle up to a 12' pusher in all but the most extreme conditions.
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  #53  
Old 03-06-2010, 10:02 AM
Digdeep Digdeep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MackCat View Post
Sorry couldn`t resist. Go to ASV website and pull up parts manuals for PT-80 and look at the parts list for the bogie wheels. I wasn`t refering to metal face seals. look at the Bearings Part #0307-923 Bearing Ball 6207 open. Same old china made bearing that was used in all the older machines. These are not used on the C series undercarriage.
MackCat...I can assure you that ASV and CAT use that exact same bearing. I would invite you to call ASV on Monday...they are still one of the only OEMs that you can still call direct....ask for anyone in product support, or engineering. I was actually passed to an engineer- 800-346-4367. He told me that these were the only differences:
1. Different bolt pattern on the middle bogie wheels
2. The front 15" wheel idler hubs are slightly heavier because of the CAT 297s weight compared to the PT80 10k+lbs compared to approx 9000lbs
3. The sprocket configuration on the CAT uses and italian drive motor final drive combination and eliinates the outboard bearing.
4. Different drive motor hoses because ASV uses Rexroth and CAT uses Bonfiglioli (spelling is probably wrong)

Both undercarriages use exactly the same bearings and seals- timken tapered bearings on the front and rear and roller bearings on all bogies.

The same 63mm metal face seal is used on every wheel in the undercarriage.

He said CAT did have input on the undercarriage and that input was-
1. different drive motor because ASV, CAT, Bobcat, Case and NH all were using some combination of the same Rexroth drive motor and availability was tough sometimes
2. different bolt pattern
3. asked for a larger hub because of the 297s weight and larger ROC compared to the PT80

I'm not trying to be a "hard case", but your China bearing comment is wrong...if the bearings are Chinese than both companies use them.

Is there anything wrong with Korean bearings and wheels because CAT's new CTLs use Korean sourced rollers/idlers and bearings from a company they bought last year?
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  #54  
Old 03-06-2010, 10:20 AM
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MackCat MackCat is offline
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I understand what they told you and it may have changed but in the current parts manual for the PT-80 That bearing is listed. check it out if you don`t believe me. They even still use it in the PT-100 but if you look at the PT-100 forestry they use the Heavier Bearings. I have a shop full of these bearings. The seals weren`t the problem, The china made bearings(it`s stamped right on the side of the bearing) weren`t heavy enough and would come apart and eat away the seal and if you did not catch it in time it would ruin the whole axle assembly costing aprox. $500.00 not counting labor. I know you have done your homework and I appreciate that, but check it out.
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  #55  
Old 03-06-2010, 10:56 AM
Digdeep Digdeep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MackCat View Post
I understand what they told you and it may have changed but in the current parts manual for the PT-80 That bearing is listed. check it out if you don`t believe me. They even still use it in the PT-100 but if you look at the PT-100 forestry they use the Heavier Bearings. I have a shop full of these bearings. The seals weren`t the problem, The china made bearings(it`s stamped right on the side of the bearing) weren`t heavy enough and would come apart and eat away the seal and if you did not catch it in time it would ruin the whole axle assembly costing aprox. $500.00 not counting labor. I know you have done your homework and I appreciate that, but check it out.
I'm not concerned with the parts manual and I don't know if the bearing is, or isn't Chinese. All I know is that that same bearing is used in all the middle bogies of both machines. Chinese or not Chinese. Please call ASV if you must satisfy your hunger to be right on this. I've posted all of the part numbers, proven that they say ASV on them, provided you with the phone number to the company that makes the undercarriage, injected reason into the debate, etc. I'm done for the sake of everyone else on this forum.
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  #56  
Old 03-06-2010, 11:33 AM
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MackCat MackCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digdeep View Post
I'm not concerned with the parts manual and I don't know if the bearing is, or isn't Chinese. All I know is that that same bearing is used in all the middle bogies of both machines. Chinese or not Chinese. Please call ASV if you must satisfy your hunger to be right on this. I've posted all of the part numbers, proven that they say ASV on them, provided you with the phone number to the company that makes the undercarriage, injected reason into the debate, etc. I'm done for the sake of everyone else on this forum.
I don`t need to satisfy my hunger. I know what i believe, you know what you believe-- so be it!
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  #57  
Old 03-06-2010, 02:10 PM
Tigerotor77W Tigerotor77W is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedly05 View Post
I think the ASV is the best route for us. I was talking to Dad about it yesterday and we were watching the vids on you tube. I told him how the cat has nearly the same bottom as the ASV. He said dont buy it unless you see it run against the ASV, he was seriously impressed with the ASV and thats the route he wants to go.

It wont be run in the worst of conditions on a regular basis, but its good to know you can go there when you need to!
If this is the case, I'd suggest demoing each unit just to see what you can glean from the demo. It'd be a good time to evaluate the dealer and the product.
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  #58  
Old 03-07-2010, 07:18 AM
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nedly05 nedly05 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerotor77W View Post
If this is the case, I'd suggest demoing each unit just to see what you can glean from the demo. It'd be a good time to evaluate the dealer and the product.
Good idea!
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  #59  
Old 03-07-2010, 10:14 AM
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jimmyjack jimmyjack is offline
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Ned , seeing how i cant figure out how to put a pic with a pm i wanted to this is the only time ive gotting them stuck , its a rental , we had that one plus mine on this job, was covering a slurry that was kinda stiff , was putting pushing dry dirt over it and i was testing how far to the edge i could get , well i got too close
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  #60  
Old 03-07-2010, 03:05 PM
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dozerman21 dozerman21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjack View Post
Ned , seeing how i cant figure out how to put a pic with a pm i wanted to this is the only time ive gotting them stuck , its a rental , we had that one plus mine on this job, was covering a slurry that was kinda stiff , was putting pushing dry dirt over it and i was testing how far to the edge i could get , well i got too close

This picture is a perfect example why every OEM should use overhead doors and not swing out.


That looks like it sucked by the way!
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