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  #21  
Old 04-11-2010, 03:53 AM
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wimpy wimpy is offline
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All Echo's are commercial grade. That made me laugh. The pB-251 is junk. Open it up sometime and tell me that is quality. Looking at a label that states emissions compliance doesn't tell the quality of the unit. That's a ridiculous statement. BG 55 is better built, produces more power at a lower weight and a lower price. The pb251 is just rated quieter, whether it actually is, I couldn't tell. It's a POS Home Depot special. ECHO is sacrificing quality to meet Home Depot's price demands.

People need to be aware that ECHO's 5 year warranty is for CONSUMERS only. If you are a professional, then you will get 2 years. Also be aware that long extended warranties are marketing gimmicks. If a unit is truly defective, it won't take 5 years to show up.
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  #22  
Old 04-11-2010, 06:42 AM
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cgaengineer cgaengineer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wimpy View Post
All Echo's are commercial grade. That made me laugh. The pB-251 is junk. Open it up sometime and tell me that is quality. Looking at a label that states emissions compliance doesn't tell the quality of the unit. That's a ridiculous statement. BG 55 is better built, produces more power at a lower weight and a lower price. The pb251 is just rated quieter, whether it actually is, I couldn't tell. It's a POS Home Depot special. ECHO is sacrificing quality to meet Home Depot's price demands.

People need to be aware that ECHO's 5 year warranty is for CONSUMERS only. If you are a professional, then you will get 2 years. Also be aware that long extended warranties are marketing gimmicks. If a unit is truly defective, it won't take 5 years to show up.
Hmm...the same 2 year commercial warranty as Stihl...tell me it isn't so? Here I thought they were in a league of their own.

No doubt that Echo makes a good product, as does Redmax, Shin, or Kawi, but basing the quality on the emissions compliance is ignorant. I am sure some Poulan junk has the same compliance numbers as a Stihl, Echo or any other handheld...its easy to stay in compliance when the unit doesn't run long enough to use it.

I have never changed the spark plug in my BG85 in the almost 6 years I have owned it...probably why it takes 2-3 pulls to start it, in fact I have not done anything to it except put gas in it.

Oh, and good luck getting Home Depot to repair a defective Echo in 5 years, consumer or commercial. There is a reason Stihl or other brands are not sold at a big box store.
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Last edited by cgaengineer; 04-11-2010 at 06:46 AM.
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  #23  
Old 04-11-2010, 01:41 PM
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green monster green monster is offline
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Let's get the facts straight. If the unit meets emissions but is only certified to stay that way for 50 hours versus 300, what does that tell you about the quality of the engine? Look at the label on the BG55, you will see it says category C (50 hours) and that is why Stihl puts it in their "Homescaper Series". Now the BG85 (or BG86) is a different story, that unit is in their, "Professional Series" and it gets a Category A (300 hours) rating. It makes a difference to Stihl, that is why they have the "Homescaper Series", and all the product you will find there will be Category C (50 hours) equipment. They put it right on their hang tags: "Homeowner"; "Mid-Range"; "Professional". If you don't believe me, go to a Stihl dealer and check it out.
All the ECHO product gets a category C (300 hour) rating because it stays in compliance with emissions for a minimum of 300 hours or longer. You may not care about emissions. Think about it. If the unit meets emissions when it is new, but comes out of complicance at 50 hours versus 300 hours, why is that? The answer is not because ECHO puts more emissions "gizmos" on their machines, or the unit does not last long enought to come out of compliance. Those are ridiculous statements! Talk about ignorance. Go talk to a knowledgeable mechanic at dealer that sells both Stihl and ECHO. They will tell you which units last longer and which units they buy for themselves.
There is no doubt Stihl makes some good product, but you have to pay for it, you have to step up to their "Professional Series". But your beloved Stihl also makes some pretty weak products in comparison as well and that is what you will find those in their "Homescaper Series".
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  #24  
Old 04-11-2010, 01:49 PM
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I don't need to talk to a mechanic since I used to be one. Second, a 2 stroke barely meets the emission requirements anyway and if they fail later on in life its not because of blowby that would effect an oil sumped 4 stroke. Third, you should get your categories straight...is is class c that's 300 hours or class a? You even have me confused and I just looked at the label last night.
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  #25  
Old 04-11-2010, 02:02 PM
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green monster green monster is offline
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Wimpy wants to talk about warranties? Why does Stihl have a 1 year consumer and a 90 day commercial on all their chain saws? ECHO has a 5 year consumer and 1 year commercial warranty on their chain saws. ECHO will warranty a chain saw to a commercial cutter for the same time frame that Stihl warranties for a homeowner. Hmmm ... what does that tell you?

The PB-251 is a Home Depot special? Then why is it also sold at independent dealers? By the way, the independent dealer will amost always be selling it for the same price, $169. This is a great unit, getting a Category A (300 hour) rating from the EPA. Your beloved BG55 is Category C (50 hours). Wimpy doesn't like the facts, that is why Wimpy admits the PB-251 gets a quieter rating, but then goes on to say he doesn't believe it.

I have to laugh when Wimpy talks about the PB-251 and ten says "open it up sometime". Oh sure, I bet he did that. LOL! Wimpy just can't accept the fact that all the ECHO is commercial grade because all he owns is Stihl. I will give Wimpy credit on one account: It appears all he has purchased is the "Professional" Stihl.
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  #26  
Old 04-11-2010, 02:14 PM
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green monster green monster is offline
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Typo, my fault Mr. Expert Mechanic. Yes, Category A is 300 hours. I believe I made that error just one time in all my mentions of Category A (300) and Category C (50). My fault, sorry.
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  #27  
Old 04-11-2010, 02:27 PM
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cgaengineer cgaengineer is offline
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Why do they offer that warranty you ask? Because their sales are down.

All Echo is not commercial.

Look, if you don't like Stihl I really don't care, but don't be talking down something you don't know anything about.
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  #28  
Old 04-11-2010, 03:02 PM
IndianSprings IndianSprings is offline
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Our local dealer has been a Stihl and Echo sealer for over thirty-five years, he just gave up the Echo line because he and his techs feel like the quality has sadly diminished with the exception of a few higher end units. He has replaced the line with Kawasaki. I have run a Stihl BG-85 blower for years commercially and haven't had to touch it. The Stihl Pro series is hard to beat for any handheld, we run a firewood service during the fall and winter, we have Stihl chainsaws that have run for thirty + years with nothing but spark plug replacement and normal maint. Both Echo and Husky have blown it, dropping their standard to sell big box stores, the lower end Huskies are no more than rebadged poulans. I'll take my orange and cream Stihls anyday, they are number one in the world for a reason and it's not because they are a pos. Echo will become only a shadow of itself if they continue down the big box path, just like homelite, mccullough and others that sold their soul.
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  #29  
Old 04-11-2010, 03:02 PM
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green monster green monster is offline
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Oh OK, and where do you get your information that ECHO's sales are down Mr. Expert? The fact is that all ECHO is commercial grade as defined by the EPA. You don't have to believe me, you can go to any independent ECHO dealer or any Home Depot and look at the label on any piece of ECHO equipment and you will see: "Emissions Compiance Period: 300 Hours".

All Stihl is not commercial grade as defined by the EPA and as defined by Stihl. That is why Stihl puts "homeowner" on the bottom of their hang tags on all their Category C (50 hour) equipment. Even Stihl admits it, why can't you?

CGAENGINEER, you need to do your research before you start making claims of, "All ECHO is not commercial", or "ECHO's sales are down", or that I am "talking down something that I know nothing about".
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  #30  
Old 04-11-2010, 03:05 PM
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cgaengineer cgaengineer is offline
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Just because emission compliance is 300 hours doesn't mean its commercial...how many times do I have to say this?
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