Register free!
Search
 
     

The Green Industry's Resource Center


Click for Weather
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #71  
Old 04-24-2010, 07:57 AM
rainbowss's Avatar
rainbowss rainbowss is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Stony Point, NY
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Really? Your statements are so ridiculous, but yet no one can comment?

There is NO problem with deep watering if your roots have the potential to get to the depth of watering. I recommend encouraging rooting depths to 12" in clay .... 12 - 18" in sandy soils. If this means watering at differential depths as the root system develops so be it.

Not only does deeper roots equate to less watering, but also to more healthy turf. I don't know where you get your information, but it is so far from being true it is not even funny.
meh, you are such an idiot.

With deep roots, the potential to underwater increases. With shallow roots, the potential to overwater increases. That being said, one assumes, like you, that water stays at that level for eternity. MEH! Talk about saving water... NOT

FYI, when I said peanut gallery, I meant you. Again, I don't understand where you learned your comprehension from.
__________________
Do you photosynthesize?
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 04-24-2010, 08:09 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: District 9 CA
Posts: 18,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowss View Post
meh, you are such an idiot.

With deep roots, the potential to underwater increases. With shallow roots, the potential to overwater increases. That being said, one assumes, like you, that water stays at that level for eternity. MEH! Talk about saving water... NOT

FYI, when I said peanut gallery, I meant you. Again, I don't understand where you learned your comprehension from.
WOW! How can one argue against that logic.

BTW .... my "learned comprehension" includes over 250 units of higher education, an AS degree in Computer Engineering, a BS degree in Soil Science & Hydrology from UCDavis and 3-5 courses from a second BS degree in Applied Plant Biology, also from UCDavis ... which just happens to be one of the top Ag schools in the country, in the event you weren't aware of that fact
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 04-24-2010, 04:14 PM
rainbowss's Avatar
rainbowss rainbowss is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Stony Point, NY
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
WOW! How can one argue against that logic.

BTW .... my "learned comprehension" includes over 250 units of higher education, an AS degree in Computer Engineering, a BS degree in Soil Science & Hydrology from UCDavis and 3-5 courses from a second BS degree in Applied Plant Biology, also from UCDavis ... which just happens to be one of the top Ag schools in the country, in the event you weren't aware of that fact
No wonder, sometimes one tries sooooooooooo hard to think outside the box and forget what is already inside.

P.S. Like my signature? I made it thinking of you, Sir.
__________________
Do you photosynthesize?
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 04-24-2010, 09:33 PM
rainbowss's Avatar
rainbowss rainbowss is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Stony Point, NY
Posts: 45
Kiril, someone just posted this over at the gardenweb. I thought I would post it for you since this article advocates everything I have stated in this thread.

Quote:
Amount and Timing of Irrigation

Generally, lawn turf requires 0.5 to 1.5 inches of water per week. The amount of water you apply will vary, depending on the weather conditions and rainfall. In periods of high temperatures coupled with full sun and high wind, lawns will require more water. It is important to note that the water can come from either rainfall or irrigation. Light, frequent applications of water are much more productive than heavy applications once a week. Remember that turf roots are naturally shorter during hot and dry weather, and water moved past the root zone is of no benefit. Research at Michigan State University also indicates that damage from certain turf diseases and insects is reduced when light, frequent (daily) irrigation is used rather than heavy, infrequent watering.

That corresponds to 0.1 to 0.2 inch of water. Applying this amount could correspond to 10 to 60 minutes of irrigation, depending on the output of your system. The rate and pattern of delivery for your system can be measured by placing cans in the lawn throughout the irrigation pattern. Turn on the system for one hour and measure the amount collected. Use this information to determine how long it will take to provide the amount needed. An in-ground irrigation system is more expensive but will give better coverage and is easier to use than hose end sprinklers. The best time of day for watering is early afternoon just before the highest temperature period of the day. This takes advantage of the cooling effects of water. You should slightly increase the amount during periods of high temperatures and sustained wind to makeup for evaporation.
http://www.turf.msu.edu/irrigation-p...-water-quality

Wow, there are still some that think inside the box.

Goo Michigan State.
__________________
Do you photosynthesize?
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 04-25-2010, 11:45 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: District 9 CA
Posts: 18,309
Nice .... you are trying to use a dumbed down article for home owners in Michigan as your "proof"?
Really dude, you are seriously arguing with me on this? I have over 15 years field experience scheduling/auditing/renovating irrigation systems and managing soils. Is your name Gerry Miller?


Those idiotic application rate suggestions by your "article" are ignorant at best. They are so general as to be inaccurate. You might as well state you need to water somewhere between 0 - 2" of water per week .... since that will pretty much cover any scenario in any part of the country for any type of turf and soil during the growing season.

Furthermore, to even suggest an irrigation schedule and application rate without knowing the rooting depth (actual,potential,desired), soil type, confining layers, turf type, irrigation water quality, leeching requirements, irrigation system efficiency, environmental conditions, etc...... is ignorant at best.

Frequent daily irrigation does NOT save water .... in fact, it wastes huge amounts of water ... not only through losses from system inefficiency but also from evaporation.

FYI .... the practice of syringing, which is what that article is suggesting, is ABSOLUTELY NOT required for residential lawns, or for any low performance turf. This is a practice utilized by high performance turf managers (sports, golf). Is your lawn a putting green? IMO, the authors of this article need a swift kick in the head.

Bottom line dude .... you need to stop pretending you have a clue here, because you don't.

But if you want to play the reference game ... here are some for you to NOT understand.


http://www.water.ca.gov/wateruseeffi...s/wucols00.pdf

http://www.irrisoft.net/downloads/ma...g%20Manual.pdf

http://www.epa.gov/watersense/docs/w...pproach508.pdf

http://ucanr.org/freepubs/docs/8395.pdf


How about some journal publications?


http://crop.scijournals.org/cgi/reprint/43/1/282.pdf

http://crop.scijournals.org/cgi/reprint/42/6/2011.pdf

http://crop.scijournals.org/cgi/cont...ract/49/3/1063

http://crop.scijournals.org/cgi/reprint/46/1/81.pdf

http://agris.fao.org/agris-search/se....xml;US9732166
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 04-25-2010, 11:51 AM
rainbowss's Avatar
rainbowss rainbowss is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Stony Point, NY
Posts: 45
Keep at it Kiril, maybe someday you will lose less water.

Answer this simple question and I will KNEEL before you Kiril.

Deep watering is done. Lets say for the sake of argument, that it is efficient enough for the numerous types of soil or what not and reached the deep roots.

Now, the outside temp gets very hot. >80F

Leaves lost most of their water due to transpiration.

Now, here is the awesome part. Roots cannot keep up with the water being lost and hence the plant just wilts and withers away. yay

All that deep watering for nothing.

Disprove this, and you are my idol for life.

IF you cannot disprove this, DO NOT bother responding as I see no use in arguing with you anymore.

P.S. Those Michigan guys are not your regular forum running maniacs. I searched who they were and they are what I would refer to as experts in the field... exactly the opposite of you.
__________________
Do you photosynthesize?

Last edited by rainbowss; 04-25-2010 at 11:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 04-25-2010, 12:37 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: District 9 CA
Posts: 18,309
Oh I see .... not enough references for you? What's the matter dude .... can't understand what is being said in those references?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowss View Post
Deep watering is done. Lets say for the sake of argument, that it is efficient enough for the numerous types of soil or what not and reached the deep roots.
First .... there is no such thing as "efficient enough for numerous types of soils" ... that alone is an enormously ignorant statement.
Second, define "deep watering" .... deep watering with respect what? How deep is deep?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowss View Post
Now, the outside temp gets very hot. >80F
Average summer temps in my region are between 90-100 degrees with NO rain inputs and practically no humidity. It is essentially a desert in the summer. Is that hot enough for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowss View Post
Leaves lost most of their water due to transpiration.
"Most of their water"? What are the other mechanisms of loss?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowss View Post
Now, here is the awesome part. Roots cannot keep up with the water being lost and hence the plant just wilts and withers away. yay
Wow dude ... you really don't have a clue here ... do you? If the water is being lost ... then the roots are "keeping up" ...... right? How exactly is this water being lost if the roots aren't "keeping up"? This is a prime example of how you don't even have a rudimentary understanding of what you are talking about.

What is your LAI? What is your root:shoot? What is your root density per unit volume of soil? What is your soils ..... water holding capacity, current matric potential & water status, hydraulic conductivity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowss View Post
All that deep watering for nothing.
Bullshiit ... Roots cannot grow without water. No water = no roots. Tell me .... how do you encourage deep rooting without providing water? How do you build a soil without providing water? How do you leech salts without watering beyond the current root zone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowss View Post
Disprove this, and you are my idol for life.

IF you cannot disprove this, DO NOT bother responding as I see no use in arguing with you anymore.
Disprove what dude? You are talking in circles. There isn't a qualified person on this planet who is going to state that a deep rooted turf is less drought resistant than a shallow rooted turf. Furthermore ..... we haven't even touched on other factors .... like nutrients.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowss View Post
P.S. Those Michigan guys are not your regular forum running maniacs. I searched who they were and they are what I would refer to as experts in the field... exactly the opposite of you.
I don't give a flying rats ass who they are ... that article give piss poor advice and their attempt to dumb it down so people like you could understand failed miserable.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 04-25-2010, 12:39 PM
rainbowss's Avatar
rainbowss rainbowss is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Stony Point, NY
Posts: 45
For fun, I read through your journal publications. My daily dose of comedy has been fulfilled and it is only noon.

First, any fool knows the higher you mow, water loss is less due to the dense grass. Most of the publications seem to be arguing this simple context. However, they fail to test higher grass height with shallow roots. FOOLS.

Second, I haven't seen one of the publications site the time of day when they watered!?!? I really can't consider anything scientific about these publications.

Maybe they were meant for the Playboy magazine?

Okay, I was willing to entertain your side but it just fails miserably.

I will just walk away.

__________________
Do you photosynthesize?
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 04-25-2010, 12:48 PM
rainbowss's Avatar
rainbowss rainbowss is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Stony Point, NY
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Oh I see .... not enough references for you? What's the matter dude .... can't understand what is being said in those references?



First .... there is no such thing as "efficient enough for numerous types of soils" ... that alone is an enormously ignorant statement.
Second, define "deep watering" .... deep watering with respect what? How deep is deep?



Average summer temps in my region are between 90-100 degrees with NO rain inputs and practically no humidity. It is essentially a desert in the summer. Is that hot enough for you?



"Most of their water"? What are the other mechanisms of loss?



Wow dude ... you really don't have a clue here ... do you? If the water is being lost ... then the roots are "keeping up" ...... right? How exactly is this water being lost if the roots aren't "keeping up"? This is a prime example of how you don't even have a rudimentary understanding of what you are talking about.

What is your LAI? What is your root:shoot? What is your root density per unit volume of soil? What is your soils ..... water holding capacity, current matric potential & water status, hydraulic conductivity?



Bullshiit ... Roots cannot grow without water. No water = no roots. Tell me .... how do you encourage deep rooting without providing water? How do you build a soil without providing water? How do you leech salts without watering beyond the current root zone?



Disprove what dude? You are talking in circles. There isn't a qualified person on this planet who is going to state that a deep rooted turf is less drought resistant than a shallow rooted turf. Furthermore ..... we haven't even touched on other factors .... like nutrients.



I don't give a flying rats ass who they are ... that article give piss poor advice and their attempt to dumb it down so people like you could understand failed miserable.
It all gets down to the Height of the grass. Frequent watering will not only save water but will get one the green that they want.

Try this, cut the amount of water you use when you deep water in half. The results in your grass WILL be the same. Why? because in your case, it is the height of the grass. And I bet it is at least 3.5inches.

Think about it. Do you drink 8 glasses of water in the morning and no water for the rest of the week? Of course, plant systems are much more simpler, but the concept is the same.

Deep watering not only takes away the nutrients of the plant, but it is slowly killing it in the long term. Keep it replenished with those $500 yearly fertilizers.

ta ta
__________________
Do you photosynthesize?

Last edited by rainbowss; 04-25-2010 at 12:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 04-25-2010, 12:58 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: District 9 CA
Posts: 18,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowss View Post
For fun, I read through your journal publications. My daily dose of comedy has been fulfilled and it is only noon.
ROFL ... I think not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowss View Post
First, any fool knows the higher you mow, water loss is less due to the dense grass.
Wrong ... there is more water loss as cut height and density increases. Mowing your turf higher increases drought resistance ... not water savings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowss View Post
Most of the publications seem to be arguing this simple context. However, they fail to test higher grass height with shallow roots. FOOLS.
Really .... provide the quotes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowss View Post
Second, I haven't seen one of the publications site the time of day when they watered!?!? I really can't consider anything scientific about these publications.
WOW .... you took all of 1 hour to make this determination? You couldn't even make it though one of the references in that amount of time, let alone all of them.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:58 PM.

Page generated in 0.12042 seconds with 8 queries