Register free!
Search
 
     

Click for Weather
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-12-2010, 12:22 PM
Juan if by land Juan if by land is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 41
Questions about concrete sub-base for Pavers

I'm a builder in NY.Many moons ago I receive a degree in Horticulture in Landscape Development at SUNY.Landscape is not my full time gig,but I try to get involved with it on most jobs because my clients trust me and because of the level of incompetence I see in the landscape industry.

About 20 years ago I started to see pavers installed on concrete sub-base slabs in these parts. Maybe an inch of sand or rock dust as a leveling base for the paver.Mortared down edging with open joints.

I recommended against this type of installation at the time.I was certain it would fail,because of frost heaving.Well,I've revisited these installations from time to time and they have held up and stayed true.Other installations,even with excellent edge containment have had settling issues.

So,I'm going to have to say that this type of installation seems superior.But I have some questions regarding the installation details.I will ask about top of the line installation methods,as these are the only one I would get involved in,anything below that I just won't get involved in.

So here are some questions.

In large installations,500 SF plus,are you using expansion joints on the concrete sub-base?

Are you using any type of drains in the slab itself to relieve water beneath the pavers?

If the slab is pitched and then terminates to a mortared down edge detail,where is the water going?

I was told of someone installing the edge pieces to the concrete with PL...huh?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-12-2010, 08:37 PM
tturbonegro tturbonegro is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: nj
Posts: 98
the water is going where you tell it to go...just as if it were a white concrete pad
PL works great
drains & expansion when and where needed
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-13-2010, 08:20 AM
Juan if by land Juan if by land is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by tturbonegro View Post
the water is going where you tell it to go...just as if it were a white concrete pad
PL works great
drains & expansion when and where needed
That's the thing...the installations I have seen haven't taken any of that into account.Maybe pitch,that's it.I haven't seen any special sub-base drainage precautions done or any type of expansion joint.Our soils tend to be very sandy with excellent drainage,some of it like a sandbox.But how does that help,if the subbase can't drain in the first place,since it pitches toward an edge that has a wet-set border?

And believe me, the installations that I have seen were not done by outfits that put any type of engineering into it.They violated a number of common sense building rules in other areas of general construction knowledge for me to figure that out.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-16-2010, 07:01 AM
Stone Creations's Avatar
Stone Creations Stone Creations is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 37
Consider that only about 1% of rain water actually gets thru the pavers to the subbase. If properly maintained and joints are sanded and patio is pitched right there should be no water reaching that subbase!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-16-2010, 09:13 AM
Juan if by land Juan if by land is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone Creations View Post
Consider that only about 1% of rain water actually gets thru the pavers to the subbase. If properly maintained and joints are sanded and patio is pitched right there should be no water reaching that subbase!
Yeah,the percentage is probably pretty low,most times,but say a 24" slow snow melt,or standing water after snow/then heavy rain makes me wonder.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-16-2010, 01:39 PM
Rex Mann's Avatar
Rex Mann Rex Mann is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 621
When mortar or PL is used to secure the border weep holes must be left to allow water to exit. You can also drill 2-inch holes in the concrete, fill with pea gravel and cover with geo textile

Peace,

Rex

http://PaversInstalled.Com
__________________
Rex Mann
Pavers Installed Company
http://PaversInstalled.Com
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-16-2010, 08:23 PM
Stone Creations's Avatar
Stone Creations Stone Creations is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan if by land View Post
Yeah,the percentage is probably pretty low,most times,but say a 24" slow snow melt,or standing water after snow/then heavy rain makes me wonder.
it should still not get thru properly maintained joints..it will runoff on top of the pavers...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-17-2010, 08:20 AM
Bru75's Avatar
Bru75 Bru75 is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone Creations View Post
it should still not get thru properly maintained joints..it will runoff on top of the pavers...
Properly maintained or not, some moisture is going to get through.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-17-2010, 08:42 PM
Stone Creations's Avatar
Stone Creations Stone Creations is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bru75 View Post
Properly maintained or not, some moisture is going to get through.
Not enough to cause any damage!!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-17-2010, 11:55 PM
Bru75's Avatar
Bru75 Bru75 is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stone Creations View Post
Not enough to cause any damage!!
Suit yourself. As for me, I allow for drainage.
Why not drill some holes? It's cheap insurance.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:26 PM.

Page generated in 0.10234 seconds with 7 queries