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  #21  
Old 08-08-2010, 08:18 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lincoln295 View Post
Update: I watered and tried to remove the dirt but just keep running into roots. You can't believe how compacted this thing is. I don't know what to try next. Anyone have ideas?
What did you expect it would be like?

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Originally Posted by lincoln295 View Post
Anyone have ideas?
Either put it back together or cut the tree down, grind the stump, and start over.
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  #22  
Old 08-09-2010, 09:02 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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I'd at least like to see what it looks like, with all the dirt stripped away, b4 it's killed.
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #23  
Old 08-09-2010, 09:50 AM
Stillwater Stillwater is offline
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oh absolutely, have at it, start grub hoeing that mass out of their!
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  #24  
Old 08-10-2010, 01:23 AM
JRM31 JRM31 is offline
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Not a tree expert by any means, but I will try to add some insight. The young fibrous roots that you are looking is most likely a secondary root system; I see this all the time when planting b and b stock. Root tissue and shoot tissue are very different, that is why when planting trees the root flare or zone of rapid taper should be just above ground. When the trunk of the tree is in contact with the soil the constant moisture will cause the tissue to decompose and the plant will grow a secondary root system to cope with the loss of tissue transporting for storage. Looking directly at the base of the trunk the roots look to be girdling the tree another common problem of maples and poor planting practices in general for any type of tree. Girdling roots will also lead to deformity of the trunk and the splitting that your seeing. Now for the answers to your question as what to do... any qualified Arborist should tell you that it can be a double edged sword. The girdling roots that are choking the tree may also be the ones keeping it alive. My advise would to you would be to take the fibrous roots out totally. Based on the size of the tree there is more sustaining its life than that small mass of young roots, also if you don't find the flare i would also recommend contacting an Arborist for a root crown excavation that will probably expose the larger roots also encircling the stem. Alright I know I just put out a lot of information and there may be some that know more than me or just want to contradict me, but from what I have learned and observed while working I would come to these conclusions.

One final note from the leaf pictures that you took the tree also is very chlorotic, I would guess that you have a soil with a high pH that is restricting the availability of one or more of the micro-nutrients that your tree needs. Adding Sulpher to the soil will lower the pH to free up those micros if they are there. Injections are also a possibility but in my opinion it is just a band aid. Soil amendments should be done after a soil test.
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  #25  
Old 08-10-2010, 08:26 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRM31 View Post
Not a tree expert by any means, but I will try to add some insight. The young fibrous roots that you are looking is most likely a secondary root system; I see this all the time when planting b and b stock. Root tissue and shoot tissue are very different, that is why when planting trees the root flare or zone of rapid taper should be just above ground. When the trunk of the tree is in contact with the soil the constant moisture will cause the tissue to decompose and the plant will grow a secondary root system to cope with the loss of tissue transporting for storage.
Come on man ..... please do some research before you post.

BTW ... I'm not seeing any girdling roots here ... can you point them out?
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  #26  
Old 08-10-2010, 02:04 PM
JRM31 JRM31 is offline
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Kiril, Look at the forth picture the roots up against the trunk. What research do you suggest I do before I post? I'm not talking about a secondary root branching off a primary root, trees will grow entirely new root systems when planted too deep I see it all the time. It is obvious that you like everything to be native and natural by past posts of yours that I have read, so you of all people should see what I am talking about. Walk around a naturally wooded area and look at the base of the tree where it goes into the soil you will see the taper i am talking about. Now go through an urban area and look at the same area of trees, they will probably look much different in most cases. Maybe you California people are just so much more advanced than us mid-westerners but i know my facts. Granted i could have elaborated much more about why and how a tree grows a secondary system but it wasn't necessary to go into great detail. It always seems that you need to be right, I have no problem when I am wrong and if I am you can tell me why... Please...
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  #27  
Old 08-10-2010, 02:31 PM
JRM31 JRM31 is offline
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Common terms may vary by location and that is my fault I can't expect everyone to speak the same language. To Kiril the google plant expert try searching for adventitious root development. That may help you find what you need to crucify me.
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  #28  
Old 08-10-2010, 03:23 PM
Stillwater Stillwater is offline
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A sgr root is clearly seen in post #1 forth picture down from the top.
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  #29  
Old 08-10-2010, 04:02 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRM31 View Post
Kiril, Look at the forth picture the roots up against the trunk. What research do you suggest I do before I post? I'm not talking about a secondary root branching off a primary root, trees will grow entirely new root systems when planted too deep I see it all the time. It is obvious that you like everything to be native and natural by past posts of yours that I have read, so you of all people should see what I am talking about. Walk around a naturally wooded area and look at the base of the tree where it goes into the soil you will see the taper i am talking about. Now go through an urban area and look at the same area of trees, they will probably look much different in most cases. Maybe you California people are just so much more advanced than us mid-westerners but i know my facts. Granted i could have elaborated much more about why and how a tree grows a secondary system but it wasn't necessary to go into great detail. It always seems that you need to be right, I have no problem when I am wrong and if I am you can tell me why... Please...
I will whittle it down for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRM31 View Post
When the trunk of the tree is in contact with the soil the constant moisture will cause the tissue to decompose and the plant will grow a secondary root system to cope with the loss of tissue transporting for storage.
You don't see any problems with this statement?

With respect to the girdling roots I am having a real hard time seeing how you are considering those as girdling.
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  #30  
Old 08-10-2010, 04:07 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by JRM31 View Post
To Kiril the google plant expert try searching for adventitious root development. That may help you find what you need to crucify me.
The "google plant expert" is about 3 classes shy of a second BS in applied plant biology from UCD. Is that good enough for you bud or do I need to have the university mail you an official transcript?
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