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  #21  
Old 08-16-2010, 11:17 PM
CA Green CA Green is offline
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Sad when you show factory reps tips and tweeks on their own products lol
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  #22  
Old 08-17-2010, 12:23 AM
Az Gardener Az Gardener is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck_wheat View Post
I'm missing something. Since I have a public edumekation my reading comprehensions be at a infants level.

Is this a residential application? Also, is your supply city water?


1. Nitrogen, phosphate, magnesium and the myriad of other "micro nutrients" are corrosive... with some exception. They are certainly less corrosive when diluted in water than they are in the plastic jugs they come in as a concentrate. I am assuming the irrigation system will be plummed in PVC
2. Overspray will stain everything No it wont it is highly diluted. Only a moron would run a high concentration of iron through a fertigation system
3. Maintaining dilution according to product label specifications is difficult; going over is a FEDERAL OFFENSE. Are you in Russia? Who is out there measuring the amount of fertilizer you are putting down. As I mentioned the more sophisticated systems have it down to a gnats azz PPM.
4. The injector/check valve will absolutly foul if not properly maintained. You would have to have a series of events all happen at once to cause a problem. Major break on the city side close enough to create a vacuum and begin to pull water from your pipes. Your back flow would have to fail. Most systems also have simple check vales or other fail safe to prevent back flow situations
5. the Fed is going to be or in you case the state CA (& FL) has already restricted application of nitrogen/phosphate based fertilizers. Are you a licensed applicator? The feds have bigger problems than what a homeowner is putting on their lawn
6. Different plantings have different nutritional requirements, too much will kill one and won't be enough for another and kill it too. You really should have a clue as to what your talking about before you weigh in on a subject.

I hear the AZ Gardener, but if it were me, I'd stay away from it cause it'll be nothing but trouble, and it's not part of my main business module... rust control is something else.
You would be as competent commenting on the likeliness of the space shuttle flying as a fertigation system performance. I really don't like to be an azz but it is one of my hot button issues. Fertigation has been used for years with very few problems and yet people with little or no experience make comments like this.
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  #23  
Old 08-17-2010, 06:58 AM
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Buck_wheat Buck_wheat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Az Gardener View Post
You would be as competent commenting on the likeliness of the space shuttle flying as a fertigation system performance. I really don't like to be an azz but it is one of my hot button issues. Fertigation has been used for years with very few problems and yet people with little or no experience make comments like this.
Thank you for your insight... I see you don't live anywhere near where I do. I also see you install 100's of them so it must be a good part of your bread and butter. I can well understand your caustic response.

Here, in the patch, things are different. You'll find that not everything is done the way you do it there Arizona... in fact I didn't think you guys knew too much about water out there; and in fact, things are done differently in different parts of the country...

If you are saying that the average homeowner or HOA is going to responsibly manage his system, then the population out there must be smaller and smarter than I thought.

Since Rock may be the primary landscape resource, I suppose a little consideration for the different nutritional requirements of the myriad of different species a typical landscaped property has in many places here, is of no consequence out there.

Over or under fertilization is equally bad, but I imagine you have a "smart" injector system that knows who gets what. Here, a fungus outbreak on a lawn (common) would suffer devastating consequences from fertilizer until the fungus is properly treated; by the same token, administring fertilizer every time people irrigate would create an unmanageable jungle in no time whatsoever.

Previous posts have already stated that communities in their neck of the woods have outlawed them or restricted their use... CA, FL for sure have restricted use laws for the application of certain chemicals (fertilizer components among them) on landscape installation and will soon require State Licensing to do so... no matter what the stated dilution rate. license I already posses.

I would never trust a homeowner or an HOA to act responsibly since they are impatient and are convinced that if one is good then ten must be that much better.

Your product will probably do well where you are since ground water contamination is not an issue... good luck with your product and I would refer you to your closing quote on the bottom of your post. After reading your informative and character building response, I feel uplifted, better informed and not at all like the idiot I apparently came across as.
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  #24  
Old 08-17-2010, 09:22 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck_wheat View Post
Previous posts have already stated that communities in their neck of the woods have outlawed them or restricted their use... CA, FL for sure have restricted use laws for the application of certain chemicals (fertilizer components among them) on landscape installation and will soon require State Licensing to do so... no matter what the stated dilution rate.
I am not aware of any CA regulations on fertilizers ..... can you point me to this regulation?

With respect to fert. injection for a landscape, IMO it is a waste-o-money. People need to learn how to properly manage their soils and/or build regionally appropriate landscapes.
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  #25  
Old 08-17-2010, 04:01 PM
Az Gardener Az Gardener is offline
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The fertilizer is micro dosed so instead of applying 1-3 months of product at once it is applied with each water cycle at microscopic amounts. The stuff I use goes out at 2,000 to1. This way you don't get it leaching through to your water table. A healthy lawn that has weekly applications of micro doses of fertilizer will be better able to combat fungus and other pests and diseases. You also don't get that roller coaster of heavy growth, avg. growth then yellow lawn. Its a nice consistent look and growth rate.

Hoa's hire most everything to be done so a professional would be managing the system. Most homeowners can't keep their lawns mowed so again it is more likely that a professional will be managing the system. Even if they decide to do it themselves the product manufacturers know who their market is so they make it simple. Spring start up blends, summer blends, fall blends, desert blend, tropical blends, you name it.

A fertigation system like any system is only as good as the person managing them. I imagine irrigation controllers got the same reaction back in the day. "How will it know when the lawn needs water?" "What if it fails, or sticks on what then?"

Most golf courses, parks and big HOA's use effluent water here in the west, the pH is up near 9. They need to bring the pH down somehow to make anything live with that water source. Injectors allow that to happen. Even our tap water is 8-8.2 and the soil is the same. My properties soils are in the 7.2-7.5 range after being on a injection system for a few months.

The product I use buffers the salts and breaks down our heavy clay soils, that's what the biological base does. It also has some synthetics added to give it a little punch. There are different blends depending on what you are trying to accomplish. Blends for trees, blends for lawn, blends to clean up toxic soils, and a general blend that is for a typical L/S.

Sorry for going off the rails but it really is a fear promoting mindset that you threw out there without any real knowledge.
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  #26  
Old 08-17-2010, 06:01 PM
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Buck_wheat Buck_wheat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
I am not aware of any CA regulations on fertilizers ..... can you point me to this regulation?
FYI; I operate a full service property maintenance company that includes irrigation, pest control, water melon, collard greens, hocks and lawn care; all of which require licensing in the patch. It behooves me to stay current on all legislation under consideration and pertinent to my business.

While attending a conference at the Agricultural extension here to obtain continuing education units for my LICENSE, the topic of fertilizer restrictions (among other things) was on the agenda. California is one among many states that are currently in the process of limiting, restricting or outright banning Phosphorous in lawn fertilizers.

Also, like Florida, California, NY and some other states, are considering limiting the amount of nitrogen permitted per a given sqf. and considering re-labeling currently over the counter chemicals like Roundup to restricted use.

But don't take my word for it, check with your local agricultural extension to find if legislation is being considered or pending, my guess is that it has already passed and will be fully implemented by 2012.

The limitations regarding nitrogen and phosphorous are already in place in Florida.

Florida is also in the process of requiring a State Fertilizer Applicators license for anyone commercially applying fertilizers by 2012 (you can get yours now if you want it), while I don't have specific information on this for you, I'm sure other states are bound to follow. Again, check with your extension.

The reckless application of these beneficial chemicals by homeowners and hacks have created an environmental nightmare for many states and so...
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  #27  
Old 08-17-2010, 06:42 PM
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Buck_wheat Buck_wheat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Az Gardener View Post
The fertilizer is micro dosed so instead of applying 1-3 months of product at once it is applied with each water cycle at microscopic amounts. The stuff I use goes out at 2,000 to1. This way you don't get it leaching through to your water table. A healthy lawn that has weekly applications of micro doses of fertilizer will be better able to combat fungus and other pests and diseases. You also don't get that roller coaster of heavy growth, avg. growth then yellow lawn. Its a nice consistent look and growth rate.

Hoa's hire most everything to be done so a professional would be managing the system. Most homeowners can't keep their lawns mowed so again it is more likely that a professional will be managing the system. Even if they decide to do it themselves the product manufacturers know who their market is so they make it simple. Spring start up blends, summer blends, fall blends, desert blend, tropical blends, you name it.

A fertigation system like any system is only as good as the person managing them. I imagine irrigation controllers got the same reaction back in the day. "How will it know when the lawn needs water?" "What if it fails, or sticks on what then?"

Most golf courses, parks and big HOA's use effluent water here in the west, the pH is up near 9. They need to bring the pH down somehow to make anything live with that water source. Injectors allow that to happen. Even our tap water is 8-8.2 and the soil is the same. My properties soils are in the 7.2-7.5 range after being on a injection system for a few months.

The product I use buffers the salts and breaks down our heavy clay soils, that's what the biological base does. It also has some synthetics added to give it a little punch. There are different blends depending on what you are trying to accomplish. Blends for trees, blends for lawn, blends to clean up toxic soils, and a general blend that is for a typical L/S.

Sorry for going off the rails but it really is a fear promoting mindset that you threw out there without any real knowledge.
I wasn't too offended, I figured I hit a nerve.

The system sounds great for your location, but like I said, each area is unique. I have been reading threads on this site for a long time and I never cease to be amazed at the number of people who are under the impression it's the same everywhere.

Using your type of system to manage PH levels would be an excellent use here. In fact I install small (50-100 gln) injector systems to manage irrigation water and soil PH as well as neutralize well water rust that stains the $hit out of everything. I purchase the hardware and chemicals from Seminole Products, a local manufacturer. Applying fertilizer is debatable.

For example, you have sandy/clay soils while the peninsula I live on is made of a porous coral rock. Most, if not all the waterways are interconnected since on average we are just above sea level and each lake, canal or waterway is part of a drainage system (originally installed to drain the peninsula and turn it into usable land...) used to manage the torrential rains of the rainy season and the lack of ground available for peculation of water into the water table.

Everything that goes onto a lawn will at some point enter the water system; whether its just run off or it peculates down to the first aquifer (about 30-40 ft down in most places) and then into the water ways Intercoastal, etc. The results are an environmental nightmare as the waterways are contaminated, algae blooms, fish kills, invasive plant species well fed and out of control chocking out natural habitat, etc. This is not just chemicals we are talking about here, but every piece of dog or cat $hit, raccoon or possum (yummy) or whatever. All finds it's way into the water supply.

Also, this is the land of the near dead and cheap is usually most important. There can be no assurance that an HOA or CA is going to hire responsible licensed people to manage their systems.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an enviro-nazi... in fact I believe the most beautiful thing you can do with a tree is what you with it after you cut it down. (We actually grow more trees than are consumed contrary to what the pinkos would like you to believe).

I also know the people here, many of them are not Otay... this is a transient society and when somebody has failed at everything else where they hail from, they come here to become a Realtor, an LCO, irrigation guy or pest control applicator.

AZ probably still has a solid christian base and with it an inherent sense of responsibility... none or very little of that exists here. A system such as yours, while managed judiciously initially would certainly be subject to abuse given a certain amount of time... the excess chemicals, even though diluted will at some point run off into the water system, it's inevitable. I'm not saying it's not a good product for some parts of this country. I'm not convinced the patch is.

Best of all things for you and your fambly.
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  #28  
Old 08-17-2010, 06:48 PM
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Buck_wheat Buck_wheat is offline
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Originally Posted by 1idejim View Post
your spelling gives you away jvan
Shhh... I'm non compes mentis... err i mean incognative, no that ain't the word I is looking for... under the $hits, no that ain't it...

TDR (Too Dumb to Read)
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  #29  
Old 08-17-2010, 07:23 PM
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Sprinkus Sprinkus is offline
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peculate
–verb (used with object), verb (used without object), -lat·ed, -lat·ing.
to steal or take dishonestly (money, esp. public funds, or property entrusted to one's care); embezzle.

Perhaps you meant percolate?
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  #30  
Old 08-17-2010, 08:27 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by Buck_wheat View Post
While attending a conference at the Agricultural extension here to obtain continuing education units for my LICENSE, the topic of fertilizer restrictions (among other things) was on the agenda. California is one among many states that are currently in the process of limiting, restricting or outright banning Phosphorous in lawn fertilizers.
I asked you to point me to the regulations showing these restrictions, not present supposition. FYI ... some states already have bans in place for both P and N ferts.
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