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  #81  
Old 02-25-2011, 12:06 AM
Marcos Marcos is offline
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Originally Posted by quackgrass View Post
I'm curious about the potential hypocrisy of crop meals for lawns.

How many square feet of land does it take to crow enough corn (soy, etc..) to fertilize 1/k of turf?

What is the amount of pesticide applied to that field?

What is the amount of fertilizer applied to that field?

What amount of fuel goes into that corn?

How much natural land and native vegetation is displaced by that field?

How does that field effect the wildlife?

To me it seems the most sustainable plan is to minimize the total amount of cropland. Creating a demand for more resource burning crops that displace natural land seems worse than just applying the inputs directly to the landscape.

It seems that farm land is being used as a corrupt middleman for some organic providers. They denounce the use of chemicals, but are willing to use the fruits of it by applying the crop to a landscape and calling it "organic".

What say you?
quackgrass, you forgot to make note of the legions of compost delivery vans and semis that annually keep our nation's landscapers, garden centers & box stores satiated with that (so called) "sustainable" compost!
No doubt there's a smokin' 18 wheeler chuck full o' compost blowing right by, or maybe into your locale this weekend.
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  #82  
Old 02-25-2011, 12:32 AM
Marcos Marcos is offline
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Originally Posted by ecoguy View Post
Hey everyone. I just came across this thread for the first time and WOW, great info. Thanks especially to Marcos for his practical, easy to understand explanations.

I spoke to our local AG place and these are their meal prices

Corn Gluten Meal $21.00 per 20 kg.
Soybean Meal $14.00 per 20 kg
Alfalfa Meal $11.50 per 20 kg
Feather Meal $44.50 per 25 kg
Blood Meal $49.00 per 25 kg
Bone Meal $33.00 per 25 kg

It's amazing how much places like Amaizingly Green charge for CGM - up here it's like $40 for 20lbs.

I live on Vancouver Island so there must be a place to find Fish meals.... Who would you recommend I speak to? I'm not looking for specific names of course, just the KINDS of people I should speak to. I guess I'm looking for a Fish waste facility? How do I get it in a form I can use.
All things considered with market pressure as it is + the relative remoteness of where you're located, those prices for CGM, SBM & AM are pretty darn good.
Does that market have access to canola meal?

See if a local vendor would be willing custom blend something for you, if you committed to X number of bags, skids, or tons.
The more expensive non-plant meals you listed: feather meal, bone meal, blood meal....could all be included in a custom blend @ about 5% ea.
Then to help keep the label from getting out of hand, the rest of the custom blend might be 1 plant-based meal.
At a Canadian $11.50 / 44 U.S. pound bag, my vote is that the remaining 85% (+ or -) ought to be the easier-to-spread SBM.
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  #83  
Old 02-25-2011, 08:47 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Location: Central Wisconsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quackgrass View Post
I'm curious about the potential hypocrisy of crop meals for lawns.

How many square feet of land does it take to crow enough corn (soy, etc..) to fertilize 1/k of turf?

What is the amount of pesticide applied to that field?

What is the amount of fertilizer applied to that field?

What amount of fuel goes into that corn?

How much natural land and native vegetation is displaced by that field?

How does that field effect the wildlife?

To me it seems the most sustainable plan is to minimize the total amount of cropland. Creating a demand for more resource burning crops that displace natural land seems worse than just applying the inputs directly to the landscape.

It seems that farm land is being used as a corrupt middleman for some organic providers. They denounce the use of chemicals, but are willing to use the fruits of it by applying the crop to a landscape and calling it "organic".

What say you?
I'll go you even one better... Build a mature lawn that grows perfectly and can turn color with very little input... Growing a mature lawn is not profitable...
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  #84  
Old 02-25-2011, 10:08 AM
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jonthepain jonthepain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcos View Post
...feather meal...
Some years ago the infield at Rockingham (the NASCAR track) had an enormous Japanese Beetle problem, till they quit using feather meal on it. It was attracting them by the thousands.

Might not be an issue elsewhere, but here in NC we have a problem with them.
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  #85  
Old 02-25-2011, 10:33 AM
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starry night starry night is offline
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This is a little off the original subject, but Jon, are you saying Rockingham's infield has been treated organically for years?
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  #86  
Old 02-25-2011, 11:12 AM
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jonthepain jonthepain is offline
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No, sorry, I can't speak to that. I suspect that they were hauling in feather meal simply because the chicken industry is huge in the area and they got a deal on it.

I was told the story last week during a discussion of Integrated Pest Management in general and Japanese Beetle management in particular with a professor from NC State, who was called in to help with their problem.

Sorry to get off topic. On topic, for me personally, sure I want to be a good steward, but frankly I am in this because I saw a market niche and am trying to fill it.

If I am helping people to develop a more sustainable, safer for their children, pets, and wells, lawn, then all the better.

I seriously doubt that, if my client's lawns become so thick and lush that the lawn only requires minimal input, that they will fire me.

But if so, then hey, I guess I did my job, and I'd be shocked if there weren't a dozen clients that scenario would produce for each "lost" client.

While quackgrass raises some interesting points, personally I can only affect the various micro-environments under my control. I'm not so sure what effect my puny efforts have as far as the overall sustainability of Cropland or the Midwest or Planet Earth or whatever overarching system this discussion alludes to.

At this point, I am merely trying to support my family in general and to keep from losing my house in particular.

I do what I can with what I got in the time allotted.
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  #87  
Old 02-25-2011, 11:18 AM
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jonthepain jonthepain is offline
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ps whenever I see your Avatar I think of Mad's Justin Bieber cover rofl:

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  #88  
Old 02-25-2011, 11:28 AM
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starry night starry night is offline
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Originally Posted by jonthepain View Post
ps whenever I see your Avatar I think of Mad's Justin Bieber cover rofl:

I had not seen that. If you want to see another Alfred E. Neuman look-a-like, see this thread: http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.p...ennis+Kucinich
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  #89  
Old 02-25-2011, 06:37 PM
quackgrass quackgrass is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcos View Post
quackgrass, you forgot to make note of the legions of compost delivery vans and semis that annually keep our nation's landscapers, garden centers & box stores satiated with that (so called) "sustainable" compost!
No doubt there's a smokin' 18 wheeler chuck full o' compost blowing right by, or maybe into your locale this weekend.
No doubt, I'm fully aware of how much fuel and iron it takes to make compost, and then apply it to a lawn.

Imagine two neighbors with 10k lawns. One uses a few tons of compost to keep up his landscape, while the other uses a sack of urea.

How much energy did each one consume from start to finish? which one actually caused more pollution?

I've always used organics based on performance, not the theory its more sustainable.

If the population was under control, and we made compost on site with man power it would be a different story, but I don't see that happening.
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  #90  
Old 05-09-2011, 03:51 PM
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PrimoSR PrimoSR is offline
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Great read - thanks for all the info everyone.
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