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  #41  
Old 09-24-2010, 07:28 PM
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punt66 punt66 is offline
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Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post
Now we're going from a cavity in the ground to general patio base prep???

Ok, so to hell with ICPI's classes and tests regarding soils??


Folks, there is a HUGE difference between VIRGIN clay soil that has never been touched, never been loosened - verses DISTURBED Clay soil. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Kiril - I hear ya! Excavating all the clay soil out is not realistic in terms of a residential patio. Leave the soil undisturbed. If you excavate too much - don't put it back, leave it out and backfill with crusher run. Although, the proper method would be to excavate the unsuitable soil according to ICPI as well as most geotechnical engineers. In which case a $9000 patio would turn into a $21,000 patio




Punt - You're confusing opinions/theory with facts Click on my user name and do a search on all my posts Review my posts and you'll see clearly when I state my opinion and you'll see that when I share our experiences I always invest the extra effort and qualify my statements The other day you made negative comments about this forum as a whole Kinda like agressive drivers always say everyone else on the highway doesnt know how to drive Honestly the negative comments from you are making you look like a miserable bitter individual Cheer up little fella spring will be here soon
there you go again. You just cant do it. You will get there little buddy. Keep trying. Also, quote me if your going to say such nonsense. You want me to "read all your posts" (snicker) but you wont quote.
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Last edited by punt66; 09-24-2010 at 07:36 PM.
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  #42  
Old 09-25-2010, 10:34 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post
Kiril - I hear ya! Excavating all the clay soil out is not realistic in terms of a residential patio. Leave the soil undisturbed. If you excavate too much - don't put it back, leave it out and backfill with crusher run. Although, the proper method would be to excavate the unsuitable soil according to ICPI as well as most geotechnical engineers. In which case a $9000 patio would turn into a $21,000 patio
Ignoring the proper way to do it .... use the same soil that will be under the rest of the patio .... and compact it to match.
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  #43  
Old 09-25-2010, 01:57 PM
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DVS Hardscaper DVS Hardscaper is offline
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yeah, but clay is too fine.

It's a fact that it doesn't compact to proper density.

Whereas crusher run does.

Thus, the professional contractor who has used crusher run has piece of mind knowing all is well and chances of a call back are slim.

When you're talking compensating for over-excavating or filling a cavity - on a professional industry forum - it's best to dispense the correct information


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  #44  
Old 09-25-2010, 10:25 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post
yeah, but clay is too fine.

It's a fact that it doesn't compact to proper density.
I didn't say compact it to a "proper" density, I said compact it to match the rest of the soil that the patio will be sitting on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post
When you're talking compensating for over-excavating or filling a cavity - on a professional industry forum - it's best to dispense the correct information
Then you best explain why someone cannot compact a back filled soil to the same density as the exact same undisturbed soil that is 5 feet away.
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  #45  
Old 09-25-2010, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
I didn't say compact it to a "proper" density, I said compact it to match the rest of the soil that the patio will be sitting on.



Then you best explain why someone cannot compact a back filled soil to the same density as the exact same undisturbed soil that is 5 feet away.

How on earth can one compact to the same density? How do you know what that density is? What, are you gonna have a geo-tech come in with a nuke gauge and get a reading on the undisturbed soil? With that said - I won't be providing you with any explanation as I believe this is where wisdom and common sense come in.


To recap -

When we have a DEEP or LARGE cavity - it gets filled with concrete. Over that goes crusher run. And on the crusher run goes a beautiful patio where people share many laughs and good times with friends and family.

When we excavate - what is disturbed stays out. Doesn't go back in.

That's how we do it.


Welp my friends, I think this topic has run it's course and probably by now the initiator of the topic is near finished his project and hopefully made a decent profit

Lookin forward to the next topic. See you there




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  #46  
Old 09-25-2010, 11:20 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post
How on earth can one compact to the same density? How do you know what that density is?
Well, if you are asking that question, then maybe you are in the wrong line of work.
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  #47  
Old 09-25-2010, 11:30 PM
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tthomass tthomass is offline
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Builder's construct homes on top of fill dirt and ya'll are discussing a little hole + whatever else for 5 pages......cute Okay, back to football.
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  #48  
Old 09-26-2010, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by tthomass View Post
Builder's construct homes on top of fill dirt and ya'll are discussing a little hole + whatever else for 5 pages......cute Okay, back to football.

They sure do! And back in the early 90's one of them had to tear a house down and start over!



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  #49  
Old 09-26-2010, 10:51 PM
Moneypit Moneypit is offline
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Originally Posted by tthomass View Post
Builder's construct homes on top of fill dirt and ya'll are discussing a little hole + whatever else for 5 pages......cute Okay, back to football.
That builder should be shot.
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  #50  
Old 09-27-2010, 11:30 AM
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DVS Hardscaper DVS Hardscaper is offline
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Back in 2000 we had a builder whom we landscaped and sodded all his homes.

He is a custom builder known for quality.

But - he was also very stingey with the dollar.

He was finishing one of his communities. Down to 3 or 4 lots remaining. They dug a foundation for a home, had no where to put the soil......so they moved the soil across the street to another lot and backfilled to a depth of about 6-feet!!! No Compaction either!!! Then about 6 months later they built a house on it!!!! I could NOT believe it. It was wrong and selfish. Here some unsuspecting person bought that lot and has a home on it suseptable to failure all because of the builder's selfishness.

Companies like Jiffy Lube change people's oil and screw up the threads on the drain plug. Or they dont tighten the filter. Doesn't mean it's an acceptable practice.

Same goes for our jobs. It costs me money to go out and repair a patio. We have a very low call back rate. And I like to think thats attributed to our high standard of methods and practices.


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__________________
"It's You vs. You"

"People Throw Rocks At Things That Shine"


My Equipment Brag List:

-1 CAT hat
-16 pairs of Hanes socks (the Heavy Duty model), many with holes.
-12 pairs of underwear, ranging from Joe Boxers to Jockey, many are in need of replacement. (no more photo requests please)
-hundreds of t-shirts. Some w/ grease stains, some torn & tattered.
-7 pairs of jeans, ranging from Levis to Polo to GAP. 1/2 of them have holes in 'em.
-1 belt
-1 pair of old worn out Nike shoes.
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