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  #21  
Old 10-20-2010, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by FIMCO-MEISTER View Post
Never have obviously. Is their a story with this?
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Just a connection to that "cold weather" 2000 series valve. I did see a few systems that were trenched and pitched to drain back to a basement, only the valves were globe valves with large wheel handles that were operated with a Champion valve key.
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  #22  
Old 10-20-2010, 09:36 PM
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FIMCO-MEISTER FIMCO-MEISTER is offline
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I assume the were pitched back to make for easy winterization?
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  #23  
Old 10-21-2010, 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Wet_Boots View Post
Here's a thought - how many of you warm-weather pikers have ever seen an all-copper-and-brass system that drained back to a valve in the basement?
Whats a basement?
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  #24  
Old 10-21-2010, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by FIMCO-MEISTER View Post
I assume the were pitched back to make for easy winterization?
Yep. Some of these systems never again saw a pro after they were installed. One of them I was called to work on had stationary spray heads on brass nipples, and the needed fix was to swap out nipples with longer ones, to raise the sprays. Other needed repairs might be for the globe valves needing new washers. (I soon learned they weren't really easy to take apart, even if I did have an oversized washer that might fit)
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  #25  
Old 10-21-2010, 10:09 AM
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hey peter i'm just pondering this statement: Originally Posted by FIMCO-MEISTER View Post
As for Leary opening the MV before turning on any zones doesn't seem too wise to me. You want a zone open with the MV opening or use a NO and leave the mainline charged at all times


isn't the correct way to use a nc mv is to open the mv before the zone valve and close it afterward? this would keep the supply line full at all times wouldn't it? i always thought the mv was a safety to" check" damage/failure issues.
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  #26  
Old 10-21-2010, 12:27 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by FIMCO-MEISTER View Post
i spent 45 minutes with a very nice 40 year veteran in our industry who walked me through how the Griswold is able to avoid the last 20% closing problem. So I am satisfied beyond any doubt that the Griswold belongs in its own category. No other valve is built like it which is about 99% of those in use is my guess. For them the 20% closing problem still exists as well as opening surge pressure from poor valve location and installation. He also said MVs don't eliminate surge pressures which is why the top designers use N.O. no surge anticipation valves connected to a flow sensor. (model 2265)
So if you have water hammers and don't want to correct the real problems causing them then just toss in a Griswold MV with a new controller that has a zone delay feature. (I'm aware of zone delay controllers. I mentioned unless you have a controller that allows for a delay.) As for Leary opening the MV before turning on any zones doesn't seem too wise to me. You want a zone open with the MV opening or use a NO and leave the mainline charged at all times.

NOTE THE SECOND SPRING. (29) That combined with the metering pin is the key.
Go figure. So how many threads, posts, and personally insulting insinuation did it take for you to realize this?

But wait ... I have no knowledge, experience or common sense .... well at least according to you.

Also, I am in agreement with the others here with respect to MV and zone valves. I'll also add, if I am not mistaken, solenoid valves require water pressure to work. How will a valve downstream of a master valve operate without water pressure present?

BTW ... you do realize you contradicted yourself again. First you say the Griswold rep walked you though how their valves are able to avoid your "20%" issue .... then you say the "20%" still exists. Which is it Pete, and is it even "20%"? Can we rely on you to accurately report your conversation, or it this another case of your twisting the facts and putting words in peoples mouths to suit your purpose .... like you pricing comments or other misleading comments?

Last edited by Kiril; 10-21-2010 at 12:37 PM.
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  #27  
Old 10-21-2010, 12:47 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by Wet_Boots View Post
The 2000 does have a unique metering pin, though.
You realize the DWS series uses the same metering pin .... right?
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  #28  
Old 10-21-2010, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
You realize the DWS series uses the same metering pin .... right?
I never encountered that line in the field. The systems with the Griswold 2000 valves were one firm's work, and always with golf-course-type rotors, either Thompson Turf Commanders or Rainbird cast-iron-case impact heads. I forget what the controllers were. Maybe Tork.
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  #29  
Old 10-21-2010, 01:04 PM
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FIMCO-MEISTER FIMCO-MEISTER is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Go figure. So how many threads, posts, and personally insulting insinuation did it take for you to realize this?

But wait ... I have no knowledge, experience or common sense .... well at least according to you.

Also, I am in agreement with the others here with respect to MV and zone valves. I'll also add, if I am not mistaken, solenoid valves require water pressure to work. How will a valve downstream of a master valve operate without water pressure present?

BTW ... you do realize you contradicted yourself again. First you say the Griswold rep walked you though how their valves are able to avoid your "20%" issue .... then you say the "20%" still exists. Which is it Pete, and is it even "20%"? Can we rely on you to accurately report your conversation, or it this another case of your twisting the facts and putting words in peoples mouths to suit your purpose .... like you pricing comments or other misleading comments?
This is what I said. Try to read more carefully and not glance over things in an irritated mood.

Quote:
No other valve is built like it which is about 99% of those in use is my guess. For them the 20% closing problem still exists as well as opening surge pressure from poor valve location and installation. He also said MVs don't eliminate surge pressures which is why the top designers use N.O. no surge anticipation valves connected to a flow sensor. (model 2265)
Griswold is in a class of its own.

So we agree that short pipes, branching, elbows, pre or mostly filled lines, less than 5fps are all great safeguards against water hammers. When all else fails use a Griswold. Works for me.
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  #30  
Old 10-21-2010, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1idejim View Post
hey peter i'm just pondering this statement: Originally Posted by FIMCO-MEISTER View Post
As for Leary opening the MV before turning on any zones doesn't seem too wise to me. You want a zone open with the MV opening or use a NO and leave the mainline charged at all times


isn't the correct way to use a nc mv is to open the mv before the zone valve and close it afterward? this would keep the supply line full at all times wouldn't it? i always thought the mv was a safety to" check" damage/failure issues.
Assuming the line is already charged. Once the MV is open and air has been flushed then you can shut down the zone valve and check the mainline for leaks. Just my thing. Being overly cautious I guess.
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