Register free!

Reply
 
Thread Tools   Display Modes
  #31  
Old 10-21-2010, 02:09 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: District 9 CA
Posts: 18,316
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIMCO-MEISTER View Post
NOTE THE SECOND SPRING. (29) That combined with the metering pin is the key.
Just so we all have the correct information, the second spring is only on models 2000 and 2030 .... none of the other valves in their lineup have that second spring ... including the 2265 surge anticipation valve which you specifically noted. So how exactly is that spring a key part?

2000 series -> http://www.griswoldcontrols.com/pdfs/F-800_5_2010.pdf

DWS series -> http://www.griswoldcontrols.com/pdfs/F-2402.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 10-21-2010, 02:18 PM
FIMCO-MEISTER's Avatar
FIMCO-MEISTER FIMCO-MEISTER is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Red State America
Posts: 18,701
Its not. Boots already covered that. I was just curious about it. Never seen a double spring valve.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 10-21-2010, 02:23 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: District 9 CA
Posts: 18,316
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIMCO-MEISTER View Post
This is what I said. Try to read more carefully and not glance over things in an irritated mood.
Come on Pete.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIMCO-MEISTER View Post
i spent 45 minutes with a very nice 40 year veteran in our industry who walked me through how the Griswold is able to avoid the last 20% closing problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIMCO-MEISTER View Post
For them the 20% closing problem still exists

Which is it?

------------------------------


Quote:
Originally Posted by FIMCO-MEISTER View Post
So we agree that short pipes, branching, elbows, pre or mostly filled lines, less than 5fps are all great safeguards against water hammers. When all else fails use a Griswold. Works for me.
Isn't that what I said in my list of some design points to consider?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Here are some design points that can help prevent water hammer.
  1. Keep your max flow velocity to 5 feet/sec or less
  2. Use slow opening/closing valves or master valve
  3. Prefill/slow fill downstream lines
  4. Avoid rapid changes in flow conditions during start/stop scenarios

Problem is, you still don't seem to understand that using an appropriate valve to prevent/reduce water hammer potential in systems where that potential is high is a key initial design point ... not an .... oops I f'd up my original design .... better throw in a griswold MV.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 10-21-2010, 02:29 PM
Wet_Boots's Avatar
Wet_Boots Wet_Boots is online now
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: metro NYC
Posts: 40,361
The spring for the metering pin is easy to miss, just from looking at the diagrams. Some of what goes on when a valve closes would involve more than a calculation for hammer force. Like the W*M shock cone, or the softer seat material on the Richdel valves, and those that followed it.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 10-21-2010, 02:36 PM
FIMCO-MEISTER's Avatar
FIMCO-MEISTER FIMCO-MEISTER is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Red State America
Posts: 18,701
You are reading one sentence at a time to take things out of context I'm guessing.
Try adding the sentence before it.

Quote:
No other valve is built like it which is about 99% of those in use is my guess.
When I explained how I was following those parameter on water hammers you got all dissed up about it. Explain in any valve installation description I give how I'm violating those parameters. I'll repeat them. Also tell me a valve you are using that closes at a different speed than they do in Texas. The Griswold Man himself said there is no other valve like theirs.

Find a center point in the zone. Tee off the mainline. Angle down about 45 degrees or so. Put in an ell, short pipe, valve, another short pipe, ell, then up to the lateral above the main and tee from there.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 10-21-2010, 02:55 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: District 9 CA
Posts: 18,316
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIMCO-MEISTER View Post
You are reading one sentence at a time to take things out of context I'm guessing.
No, I don't believe I am Pete .... unless by "them" you mean everyone but griswold, otherwise the contradiction is there in plain English, especially considering the following "he also said". You didn't previously state what he said, so one can only assume the previous sentence is what he said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FIMCO-MEISTER View Post
i spent 45 minutes with a very nice 40 year veteran in our industry who walked me through how the Griswold is able to avoid the last 20% closing problem. So I am satisfied beyond any doubt that the Griswold belongs in its own category. No other valve is built like it which is about 99% of those in use is my guess. For them the 20% closing problem still exists as well as opening surge pressure from poor valve location and installation. He also said MVs don't eliminate surge pressures which is why the top designers use N.O. no surge anticipation valves connected to a flow sensor. (model 2265)
Perhaps if you learned how to communicate properly instead of jumbling your thoughts into one huge paragraph there might not be any confusion. Just a suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FIMCO-MEISTER View Post
Find a center point in the zone. Tee off the mainline. Angle down about 45 degrees or so. Put in an ell, short pipe, valve, another short pipe, ell, then up to the lateral above the main and tee from there.
Yea ... OK Pete ... whatever you say.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 10-21-2010, 03:40 PM
FIMCO-MEISTER's Avatar
FIMCO-MEISTER FIMCO-MEISTER is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Red State America
Posts: 18,701
Also tell me a valve you are using that closes at a different speed than they do in Texas.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 10-21-2010, 06:17 PM
esnipe8 esnipe8 is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Clovis, Ca
Posts: 264
Another topic that is probably over the head of 99.5 % of the guys on here......including myself....shhh.

Its always amusing to read through these discussions, you guys should teach some classes or something!
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 10-21-2010, 06:28 PM
Wet_Boots's Avatar
Wet_Boots Wet_Boots is online now
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: metro NYC
Posts: 40,361
Valves are a snooze - me for BBQ and Pizza Class.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 10-21-2010, 06:37 PM
Mike Leary's Avatar
Mike Leary Mike Leary is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Cactus Hug, Arizona
Posts: 20,565
Peter and Kiril already have tenure in the "beat a dead horse" school.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:09 AM.

Page generated in 0.10298 seconds with 8 queries