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  #51  
Old 10-21-2010, 07:38 PM
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Tbone77 Tbone77 is offline
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I know one difference of the big three is that the solenoid chamber is reverse ported on Hunter's valves. I have witnessed that they will "burp out" the water hammer(s) because the surge will knock the solenoid plunger up allowing the diaphragm to briefly lift and exit downstream to the heads. When I saw it the heads actually started to pop up and spit out some water. But since they don’t have a NO valve this would not apply to that discussion.
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  #52  
Old 10-21-2010, 07:56 PM
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DanaMac DanaMac is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wet_Boots View Post
Toro Flo-Pro
The ones I worked on had springs.
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  #53  
Old 10-21-2010, 08:44 PM
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i believe the originals were spring-free
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  #54  
Old 10-22-2010, 12:57 AM
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FIMCO-MEISTER FIMCO-MEISTER is offline
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Originally Posted by Tbone77 View Post
I know one difference of the big three is that the solenoid chamber is reverse ported on Hunter's valves. I have witnessed that they will "burp out" the water hammer(s) because the surge will knock the solenoid plunger up allowing the diaphragm to briefly lift and exit downstream to the heads. When I saw it the heads actually started to pop up and spit out some water. But since they donít have a NO valve this would not apply to that discussion.
Interesting.

I replaced an SRV that behaved bizarre. It would shut off then open in about 2 second intervals. Not a very old install either. Last valve on the system. The bonnet was beating in and out each time. i decided at that point to never trust a Hunter valve. Never seen a valve behave like that before. Maybe it was trying to do the same thing but got caught in a loop.

Once they got the kinks worked out the DVF was my all time favorite residential valve. Didn't care for the trapped solenoid plunger but other than that it was a good valve for me. The 205 was good but for one issue. It required like a 1 gpm flow to shut off. Made a lousy master and drip valve. The 2400 was good as well but I'm biased against jartops.
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  #55  
Old 10-22-2010, 09:05 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by FIMCO-MEISTER View Post
I'm amused. I don't think I ever slammed Griswold but I'll go back and look. My only complaint about Griswold is the great mass of irrigators aren't using them so they are a red herring in a discussion on water hammers. Can they be used as a solution? Absolutely. For discussion here though we are talking RB Hunter Irritrol Toro WMTIC. If one of those brands has advantages on water hammer issues I'd sure like to know about it. My experience is they are all about the same. So what percentage of your valve installs are Griswold?
For dinky pipe systems I spec Griswold 100% of the time for master valves. It doesn't matter what the zone valves are at that point ..... does it?

It is interesting that you have all that closing/opening speed information on RB Hunter Irritrol Toro WMTIC valves though. I'd sure like to have that info on hand for all the valves each manufacturer has to offer .... can you post it please.
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  #56  
Old 10-22-2010, 09:35 AM
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FIMCO-MEISTER FIMCO-MEISTER is offline
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Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
For dinky pipe systems I spec Griswold 100% of the time for master valves. It doesn't matter what the zone valves are at that point ..... does it?

It is interesting that you have all that closing/opening speed information on RB Hunter Irritrol Toro WMTIC valves though. I'd sure like to have that info on hand for all the valves each manufacturer has to offer .... can you post it please.
If you spec Griswold for all your MVs then my hats off to you. I'd do the same knowing what I know now. Told Rocky the rep my only regret was I didn't talk to him 30 years ago.

As for the other valves I've never seen data so I treat them all the same. I follow my slam shut rule and install accordingly.
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  #57  
Old 10-22-2010, 09:44 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by FIMCO-MEISTER View Post
If you spec Griswold for all your MVs then my hats off to you. I'd do the same knowing what I know now. Told Rocky the rep my only regret was I didn't talk to him 30 years ago.
Funny .............

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Originally Posted by FIMCO-MEISTER View Post
The only hole is your inability to recognize that using a Griswold valve to solve your water hammer issues is a failure in common sense installation skills.
-----------------

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Originally Posted by FIMCO-MEISTER View Post
As for the other valves I've never seen data so I treat them all the same. I follow my slam shut rule and install accordingly.
I see. They obviously aren't all the same, designs vary, as you well know. So you don't really know anything about how quickly they open and close, you are just guessing.
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  #58  
Old 10-22-2010, 09:53 AM
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If you have data let me see it. Otherwise I'd be conservative. I'm not in the irrigation testing market. My methods have served me well and I never required a griswold to bail me out. But the extra protection isn't a bad idea but the methods i followed wouldn't change either.
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  #59  
Old 10-22-2010, 10:22 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by FIMCO-MEISTER View Post
If you have data let me see it. Otherwise I'd be conservative. I'm not in the irrigation testing market. My methods have served me well and I never required a griswold to bail me out. But the extra protection isn't a bad idea but the methods i followed wouldn't change either.
I don't have the data .... that is why I asked you to post it since you are claiming to have this info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FIMCO-MEISTER View Post
For discussion here though we are talking RB Hunter Irritrol Toro WMTIC. If one of those brands has advantages on water hammer issues I'd sure like to know about it. My experience is they are all about the same.
Furthermore, I don't need to be "bailed out". As stated now on several occasions, if there is potential for destructive water hammer in a system, it is dealt with by specifying a Griswold master "from the git" (as Mike says), not 6 months down the road when you realize you f'd up the original design. There are other ways to deal with it as well (again, as already mentioned) by using an actuated ball valve. These are elegant solutions, not some half assed lets connect our valves with a bunch of fittings and short pieces of pipe and cross our fingers "solution".

Now one could say that using a water hammer arrestor is "extra protection", but even that could be argued as a valid design option.

Last edited by Kiril; 10-22-2010 at 10:28 AM.
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  #60  
Old 10-22-2010, 10:33 AM
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FIMCO-MEISTER FIMCO-MEISTER is offline
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Boy you are frothing at the mouth today. there was a time ya know before zone delay controllers and fancy valves and pvc pipe. I was fortunate to learn a few things from an old timer who used to install all copper systems. It may be half azz to you but was very effective for me. I never crossed my fingers. Didn't have to worry about a mv failure but like I said that Griswold would be nice extra protection. Glad I had an open mind back then and glad I still have one today.
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