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  #11  
Old 11-05-2010, 12:13 AM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turf hokie View Post
Is that the one in MA? that is not close. that is an overnite trip...
Yeah but Peter is pretty close to you, maybe you can work something out with him.
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  #12  
Old 11-05-2010, 10:43 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by turf hokie View Post
Sigh, I think Kiril may be on to something......
Unfortunately, everyone wants a piece of your pie, and by the time those people have taken their slice, there is very little left for you.

I am sure NOFA does some good work in other areas, I just don't buy into accreditation programs that are essentially nothing more than paying dues and taking a few "classes" in order to have some letters after your name.
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  #13  
Old 11-05-2010, 07:38 PM
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americanlawn americanlawn is offline
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Kiril -- I agree buddy. Outfits like NOFA are typically formed by stay-at-home moms and others who don't work for a living. Most often, they have no interest whatsoever regarding new technology. For them, it's merely a "hobby" just to break up their boredom. Oddballs like them are usually the ones driving around & shopping at WalMart, etc while we are out "working for a living". These mucks are just plugging up traffic when I'm trying to earn a living. Probably shopping for new bumper stickers that say "Hope and Change".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Unfortunately, everyone wants a piece of your pie, and by the time those people have taken their slice, there is very little left for you.

I am sure NOFA does some good work in other areas, I just don't buy into accreditation programs that are essentially nothing more than paying dues and taking a few "classes" in order to have some letters after your name.
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  #14  
Old 11-05-2010, 09:38 PM
roccon31 roccon31 is offline
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i am oalso on the fence about reaccreditation for the year. NOFA has gotten me some (very little) work, so to me it would be worth it. but there wasnt much that interested me for programs this year, and the ones that did were in CT, or some other new england state that required at least a 6-7 hour car ride plus hotel fare, etc. with the cost of fuel and travel these days, it would have cost me more to go to a nofa course this year than i have made from nofa in the past 2 years of being accredited.

now i do certainly consider the people and collective knowledge of nofa very valuable, but in the short term it just isnt worth it for me anymore. heck, in PA, nobody even knows nofa except the organic farmers i talk to, who cant afford my services anyway!
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  #15  
Old 11-05-2010, 10:28 PM
Tim Wilson Tim Wilson is offline
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Originally Posted by americanlawn View Post
Kiril -- I agree buddy. Outfits like NOFA are typically formed by stay-at-home moms and others who don't work for a living. Most often, they have no interest whatsoever regarding new technology. For them, it's merely a "hobby" just to break up their boredom. Oddballs like them are usually the ones driving around & shopping at WalMart, etc while we are out "working for a living". These mucks are just plugging up traffic when I'm trying to earn a living. Probably shopping for new bumper stickers that say "Hope and Change".
Hey Kiril, you redneck you. <extreme giggle>
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  #16  
Old 11-06-2010, 01:26 PM
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Compostwerks LLC Compostwerks LLC is offline
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A different perspective....

Hi all;

I wanted to jump in here to post some facts about NOFA and hopefully dispell some potential rumors.

Let's begin with cost; (seems like the biggest issue on the thread).
Complete cost of accreditation is $700.00 which includes the cost of the exam. There is no processing fee. There are discounts if you choose to enroll prior to December 18th. Please note that this is a one time cost. Additional discounts apply if you are a current member. Yes yearly membership dues apply. All organizations have them. This helps to cover administrative costs. It costs $100.00 per year.

CEU's (credits); Again, I know of no organization that doesn't require them. A very small percentage of the certified credit opportunites are actually sposored by NOFA. Most are independenty hosted. There are some couses which are completely free. Most of the more technical courses cost roughly $35.00 per hour. There are credit oportunites all over the place, no need to travel far.

So summing up, becoming a NOFA AOLCP has a start up cost of $700.00 and roughly $250.00 per year to keep it going. That's a marked departure from the claim at the opening of this tread.

Standards of the program can be read here.

Marketing wise, it's all about the return on your investment. I respect that completely. Bryan, I see on your website (nice website!) that there is no mention your business having NOFA AOLCP's. You have done an awesome job posting on your Facebook page, but again, no mention of NOFA. I would suggest plastering you accreditation through NOFA (your investment) on every shred of marketing material you have. I'm happy to email the logo files to you. Roccon too....don't see it on your website either. Let me know. I'm happy to help.

I'm on the NOFA OLC Commitee. Everyone volunteers their time with the exception of Bill Deusing and an admin team. You can have my complete assurance that there are no armchair leaders, bored moms or slackers. Why do we do it? Simple; To get the word out to as many landscape professionals as possible so they're prepared to deliver organic services to their customers. We are making a big push to reach land owners and general public who are interested in eliminating pesticides. Being accredited is a direct pathway to those potential customers.

Cult? I've been known to drink cool aid now and again, but I'm no cult member!

Oddball? Sometimes!

Thank you all for your openness.

Peter
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  #17  
Old 11-06-2010, 01:42 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by Compostwerks LLC View Post
Complete cost of accreditation is $700.00 which includes the cost of the exam.
You are forced to pay for the courses, even if you don't need them. In my eyes, it would be more beneficial to landscapers if NOFA would offer a test only option at a substantially reduced startup cost for those who are already educated, or who wish to educate themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Compostwerks LLC View Post
CEU's (credits); Again, I know of no organization that doesn't require them. A very small percentage of the certified credit opportunites are actually sposored by NOFA. Most are independenty hosted. There are some couses which are completely free. Most of the more technical courses cost roughly $35.00 per hour. There are credit oportunites all over the place, no need to travel far.
Why not offer other options, like allowing people to fill CEU's from local colleges/universities, or online courses?
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  #18  
Old 11-06-2010, 07:09 PM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Why not offer other options, like allowing people to fill CEU's from local colleges/universities, or online courses?
They do allow this option. I have sponsored NOFA approved classes. Rutgers is holding one in 2011 that should be approved. It costs money to hold these classes and the information provided is worth money, therefor there are fees for these classes.

I have some disagreements with some of NOFA's ideas, but I also think they have a great deal to offer. I know of no other group in the northeast that provides this type of education to the landscape industry as thoroughly and consistently as they do.

Kiril, feel free to contact them with your ideas on how they might improve their services and outreach.
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  #19  
Old 11-06-2010, 11:19 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
They do allow this option. I have sponsored NOFA approved classes. Rutgers is holding one in 2011 that should be approved. It costs money to hold these classes and the information provided is worth money, therefor there are fees for these classes.
That is not what I was really talking about. I quickly read through the CEU stuff this morning and from what I saw, anything that has not been approved, is not allow for use as CEU units until it goes through the whole process of approval. What I am suggesting is a list of courses that just about any college/university offers that will satisfy the CEU requirement, without having to go though this approval process.

Furthermore, the whole not allowing CEU for course work that covers (promotes) prohibitive materials is extremely short sited IMO. A course in conventional fertilizers could be construed as "promoting" their use, however any organic practitioner should be aware of how they work and the impacts they can have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
Kiril, feel free to contact them with your ideas on how they might improve their services and outreach.
It is unlikely they give a rats ass what some guy in CA thinks, nor is it likely they will even consider a test only option, too much money at stake.
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  #20  
Old 11-06-2010, 11:41 PM
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turf hokie turf hokie is offline
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Peter

Thank for jumping in. I checked my files, (should have when I first posted) you are correct on the testing cost. For me to send my tech, it cost me $700 for the course and test + $100 for membership, total fees, $800 according to the invoice I have.

But.....I had to pay my tech for the week to go and take the test plus, all expenses associated with traveling each day, granted it was in Tarrytown (30 minutes away) but it is still a bridge toll and fuel. So the cost to me to get one of my guys accredited was $800+50 hours labor + fuel and tolls.....now I am looking at $100-300 for 4 credits+ 10+ hours labor + fuel and tolls + my annual $100 membership....

The CEU's I disagree with you, unless I am not seeing the courses you are refering to. It seems that the courses for $35/hr are at least 2+ hours away, the ones at the Bronx Botanical Gardens which is closer are multiple nights and 75+/hr along with multiple tolls etc away.

Please help me out in finding a course that will allow my tech to continue being accredited and not cost me too terribly.

Also, I have to update my website, I have not done so in almost 2 years, so it pre-dates our NOFA affiliation. My facebook page, is better, it has a logo in the "affiliations" picture album, I could have sworn I had it on the wall at some point, I will change that tomorrow..so thank you for checking it out and bringing that to my attention.

Please feel free to contact me by pm or at my email bryan@mywebsitelistedbelow.com

Bryan
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