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  #71  
Old 03-20-2013, 08:57 PM
replenish&subdue replenish&subdue is offline
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Holganix and SumaGreen are not the same. SumaGreen is a lot of microbes and Holganix has I think 23 ingredients. Lots of diversity in the one. I am not wanting to type a case. Just compare ingredients. It's in there.
I would almost bet you are a SumaGreen salesperson,just read your blogs. It's in there.
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  #72  
Old 03-20-2013, 10:16 PM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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And then there is ICT Organics Instant Compost Tea;
$0.67/K, shelf life of 2 years, no refrigeration required.
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  #73  
Old 03-21-2013, 04:36 PM
Lawn132012 Lawn132012 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turf hokie View Post
Lawn,

I addressed most things in red above but want to be clear that you are putting things on this thread as fact when you simply have not done enough homework and are simply stating what amounts to be uneducated opinion.

Lets do a brief overview/comparison of products
+both can be used with a reduced rate of chemicals.
+both can be used as a stand alone
+Holganix needs to be kept cold, sumagreen does not
This should give you pause, why is this?
+Cost of product is almost identical
Sumagreen costs $1.05 per 1,000 sq ft
Holganix costs $1.04 per 1,000 sq ft

Soooo.....you are indeed misleading people pretty significantly when you tell them that Holganix costs twice as much as sumagreen. Even if there is more of a volume discount for larger quantities you will not reach a 50% material difference....

Cost of product based on your statement that 50 gallons is $2250...which is $45 per gallon and used at 3 oz per 1,000 sq ft.

Compared to Holganix used at 7 oz per 1,000 (my use rate and my pricing used)
Turf - I AGREE with EVERYTHING you wrote!!!
Lets do a brief overview/comparison of products
+both can be used with a reduced rate of chemicals.
+both can be used as a stand alone
+Holganix needs to be kept cold, sumagreen does not
This should give you pause, why is this?
+Cost of product is almost identical
Sumagreen costs $1.05 per 1,000 sq ft
Holganix costs $1.04 per 1,000 sq ft


Here is where I am not sure IF everyone gets this price. I am not as big as you I guess but The rate I buy at obviously is more expensive then what you are getting. The sale person for Holganix told me 7-9 oz per 1000 sq/ft and the price of the sizes he gave me were about the SAME as sumagreen. The main difference for me was using between two and three times the amount of product. Maybe the guy I talked to is trying to make a few extra bucks but his liquid Holganix (not the dry) product was about the same price as the sumagreen. That is where I got the COST MORE part of what I was saying.

I agree they are both supposed to be stand alone but the Holganix guy told me and others I talked to that they need to use fertilizer. Maybe I got a bad sales rep from Holganix. Can you please PM me the prices you were quoted or list here. I bet you get different prices. Are you a Holganix dealer? If not I want to see what prices you got so I can show the guy here and basically say THIS is why you lost a client because you tried to screw me.

Replenish- I could care less about WHAT is in the product (ingredients / microbes) they are both basically Organic or Green. The bottom line is do they work. I find it funny how the sales guy showed me some checklist of Holganix and sumagreen. I mean sumagreen could make a checklist to just listing everything they have and Holganix does not. I mean you have to be an idiot to buy product based on that. I want to have something that works and was cost efficient for my company. Bottom line is my BOTTOM LINE!! If what Turfhokie said it true about the prices he got then like I said the Holganix guy in my area screwed himself out of possible sales because he got greedy.
What kills me is you keep saying I am a sales person yet you are the one getting defensive in this post when I mention something bad (or negative) about Holganix. I am only stating how the products (pricing, etc) where offered to me.

Phastsound send me a price list of the ICT Organics and application rates and what else I need to know about the product so I can compare. Thanks

Question: I see ICT Organics you mentioned shelf life. What is the shelf life of the other products as I do not worry about holding on to product over 6 months at the month so to me shelf life is not that important but was interested why you mentioned it. I mean most of us on here do not keep product for more then one year let alone two years.
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  #74  
Old 03-21-2013, 06:12 PM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawn132012 View Post
Turf - I AGREE with EVERYTHING you wrote!!!
Lets do a brief overview/comparison of products
+both can be used with a reduced rate of chemicals.
+both can be used as a stand alone
+Holganix needs to be kept cold, sumagreen does not
This should give you pause, why is this?
+Cost of product is almost identical
Sumagreen costs $1.05 per 1,000 sq ft
Holganix costs $1.04 per 1,000 sq ft


Here is where I am not sure IF everyone gets this price. I am not as big as you I guess but The rate I buy at obviously is more expensive then what you are getting. The sale person for Holganix told me 7-9 oz per 1000 sq/ft and the price of the sizes he gave me were about the SAME as sumagreen. The main difference for me was using between two and three times the amount of product. Maybe the guy I talked to is trying to make a few extra bucks but his liquid Holganix (not the dry) product was about the same price as the sumagreen. That is where I got the COST MORE part of what I was saying.

I agree they are both supposed to be stand alone but the Holganix guy told me and others I talked to that they need to use fertilizer. Maybe I got a bad sales rep from Holganix. Can you please PM me the prices you were quoted or list here. I bet you get different prices. Are you a Holganix dealer? If not I want to see what prices you got so I can show the guy here and basically say THIS is why you lost a client because you tried to screw me.

Replenish- I could care less about WHAT is in the product (ingredients / microbes) they are both basically Organic or Green. The bottom line is do they work. I find it funny how the sales guy showed me some checklist of Holganix and sumagreen. I mean sumagreen could make a checklist to just listing everything they have and Holganix does not. I mean you have to be an idiot to buy product based on that. I want to have something that works and was cost efficient for my company. Bottom line is my BOTTOM LINE!! If what Turfhokie said it true about the prices he got then like I said the Holganix guy in my area screwed himself out of possible sales because he got greedy.
What kills me is you keep saying I am a sales person yet you are the one getting defensive in this post when I mention something bad (or negative) about Holganix. I am only stating how the products (pricing, etc) where offered to me.

Phastsound send me a price list of the ICT Organics and application rates and what else I need to know about the product so I can compare. Thanks

Question: I see ICT Organics you mentioned shelf life. What is the shelf life of the other products as I do not worry about holding on to product over 6 months at the month so to me shelf life is not that important but was interested why you mentioned it. I mean most of us on here do not keep product for more then one year let alone two years.
Lawn132012,

I sent you a PM.

Turf Hokie buys in bulk & gets better pricing. That's no reason to bash the Holgainx sales rep.
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  #75  
Old 03-21-2013, 07:29 PM
replenish&subdue replenish&subdue is offline
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My bottom line in not money.
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  #76  
Old 03-21-2013, 08:56 PM
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turf hokie turf hokie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
Lawn132012,

I sent you a PM.

Turf Hokie buys in bulk & gets better pricing. That's no reason to bash the Holgainx sales rep.
Phasthound is right, no reason to bash the sales rep. It took me a long time to get to the point of buying on volume from any of my vendors. And I also expect that someone buying significantly less than me will pay more.

That being said, I dont know what you volume is...but...

when I went from the 4.5 gallon jugs to the bulk storage my price went down $6 per gallon, that is where you get the biggest savings. The savings from buying a few jugs, to the large fridge was not that much.

I asked my rep why such a jump in savings when going bulk? basically because of the cost of the containers....

my fridge held 135 gallons, the bulk tank holds 180 gallons, but I got a $6 per gallon break by going to the bulk storage...

I did base the price comparison on my bulk purchases and your pricing at 50 gallon drums, if there is a price break for larger sumagreen purchases then the sumagreen will end up being cheaper, but I dont know if there would be a huge break from 50 gal drums to tote tanks just based on my past fertilizer purchases...

There is also more to my buying decisions than price alone, you cannot build relationships on bottom line pricing.

I will send you a pm as well.
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  #77  
Old 03-22-2013, 12:32 AM
Lawn132012 Lawn132012 is offline
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Guys I am not bashing the Holganix rep (replenish) I am just saying the guy that spoke to me about this time last year told me the things I mentioned along with a few other in our area. So like I said maybe the guy was new or just said what he wanted to thinking we would just buy no matter what.

Turfhokie and Phast I got your PM's and I will get back to you guys soon.

Turkhokie the next price break for the Sumagreen is the 250 tote and that is $42 a gallon.

I agree with several of you about it is not always about price but like I said I did not see any difference in the products proformance and neither did my friend Rob Lundholm (Cape May) or the other three companies that switched from Holganix to Sumagreen. I am happy with what we are using and I am glad you guys are happy with Holganix. I am not here for a pissing contest.
The reason I am using the sumagreen is because it is a GREEN product like holganix. So YES when the products preform the same obviously I went to price ...that is what I meant buy it didn't matter which product I used. The outcome was the same on the grass so I went with the cheaper product for myself.
Turfhokie gets the products cheaper so I am glad for him and any other company that is getting good pricing. I by the 50 gallon barrels because of the storage reasons and the ability to move area, easier then a tote.
None of us are making money on the products (except Replenish)

Now that we are done with the pissing contest does anyone use the ICT Organics that Phastsound was talking about? IF so what are the app methods? and can it be used with the usual stuff like the other two products we have been talking about.
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  #78  
Old 03-22-2013, 09:14 AM
replenish&subdue replenish&subdue is offline
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Ict has a solid line of products and the support to go with them. The 1-2-3 compost tea takes the effort out of making the tea yourself. I have used the tea,****,corn gluten and bought some "natural" insecticide this year to try.
If Holganix doesn't make the grade I might change to the fertilizer line ,I think,Barry carries called Nutrients Plus.
As for the bottom line, if your all about making money or surviving then money should be your bottom line.My bottom line is learning how the soil food web works and what products work best for a bridge company like myself. I do not see myself becoming all organic unless regulations force me to and/or products are developed that really work and are affordable and practical in running a business.

By the way to say SumaGreen and Holganix are the same just because the bottom line is the results are the same is rather shallow thinking. Are the results that the plant,turf is green? The benefit of Holganix having all those extra ingredients that SumaGreen does not have is that they are supposed to have different effects upon the soil. Benefits like enhanced disease prevention,root development,soil conditioning and of coarse the microbial life. For example,Holganix has endo & ecto mycorrizahae for roots.

Where the verdict is not in for me with Holganix is how effective are these ingredients! Sure they are in there and are said to do certain effects but is the quantity and quality of the ingredients sufficient to do so. For example,I find it hard to believe any nematodes or protozoa can survive all they have to go through after hitting the plant. There are other ingredients I could mention.

Meanwhile it is the best bridge product I know at this time. This will be my second year and I am more equipped to evaluate this time. Ultimately I hope to make my own bridge product.This will require for one being better trained to use a microscope to determine what can survive the mixtures added.
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  #79  
Old 03-22-2013, 07:48 PM
PremierRealtyServices PremierRealtyServices is offline
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I’m a customer of Holganix and I don’t know much about Suma Green but Holganix has been a good value for my company. I was able to reduce herbicides and fertilizers and was got better crab grass prevention this year than I ever have. They offer marketing support that helps me communicate the message behind the product. They also supplied a free RAD system… they tell me this stands for refrigerated automated dispensing system. Anyways it allowed me to tap into bulk delivery… lowering my cost. The RAD included a venture inductor and flash fill system which allowed me to fill my 400 gallon spray tank in 6 mins (used to take me 30 mins)!!!! I don’t know anyone else who makes such an investment in their customers than Holganix. I’m getting better results, saving money, and get to tap into the green message with marketing.
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  #80  
Old 03-23-2013, 10:23 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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If Holganix is what it takes to get people to recognize the benefits of an improved soil base,,, then it is a good thing...
It would be even better if the discussion was more about Why,,, as opposed to the discussion being about Whether...

" And then there is ICT Organics Instant Compost Tea;
$0.67/K, shelf life of 2 years, no refrigeration required. "


I agree that this is more 'bang for your buck", and I'm not advertizing for ICT, just comparing the value of comparable ingredients...
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