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Old 01-22-2011, 05:39 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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'N' Evaporation And Leaching

One thing I always like to have is, the documentation on, the 'loss of N' in synthetic granular or spray form, from the time it is applied, to the next time it is applied. [How much actually is lost, during that period.]

A nice bit of research, that is, "Easy to Read', on the subject would be Great...

Has anyone come across any articles, with sensible information, that could easily be relayed to a client?
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:21 PM
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dKoester dKoester is online now
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http://www.humates.com/pdf/nvsc.pdf This basically states that humus anchors nitrogen in the soil and without it you can loose alot of N per year.
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:02 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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An excellent article, defining the natural processes of decaying OM into humates. It addresses the additional problem of 'too much' N which causes the loss of carbon available to the plant.
This is the common denominator in the synthetic vs. natural recycling of nutrient discussion. A little technical...

However, the recycling of carbon and nutrients by natural processes alone, do not accomplish the yeild or color of the grasses that people have come to expect.
For that reason, additional N is required. Conventional wisdom to the client, with no technical understanding whatsoever...

I believe that the additional N needn't be as excessive as it is to accomplish these ends, but I also have read that much of this unnecessary N is lost to the air and the water movement as well. Again technical, but simply described, if documented.

My focus here is to determine the amount of N lost, AND the form in which it is lost, to decide just how much N could safely be added to the turf, as a 'Supplement' to what the microbes are already doing. This would give the client the idea of looking at NPK apps as a 'supplement' to what is already, a fertile soil...

If I had something that demonstrated the loss of N, it would be simple enough to convince the client that a reduced amount of N, in the right form, would be desirable. This is the first step I am looking at to satisfy the concerns of myself and those I hope to work for...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:50 PM
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fl-landscapes fl-landscapes is offline
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there would be a lot of factors involved so I dont think you will find a definitive answer.

Fast release verses slow release
what type of slow release
temperature
moisture
liquid or granular
soil type
shade or sun
just to name a few. Maybe someone else has a study sheet they can share I just think the volitization and leaching rates will have a wide range depending on the situation
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:21 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fl-landscapes View Post
there would be a lot of factors involved so I dont think you will find a definitive answer.

Fast release verses slow release
what type of slow release
temperature
moisture
liquid or granular
soil type
shade or sun
just to name a few. Maybe someone else has a study sheet they can share I just think the volitization and leaching rates will have a wide range depending on the situation
Agreed, there are a number of factors I'm sure... But if I dump a bag of Scott's on 5000 sq ft., how much N could I lose on sandy soil with no rain... It's not being used by the plant, so does it stay there or does it volitize to some degree? How about clay with lot's of water? There are a number of different scenarios, but certainly not beyond the general comprehension of certain criteria...

I have seen various 'baselines' in the past , so I was hoping that this type of research has been refined and simplified....
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:21 PM
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fl-landscapes fl-landscapes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Agreed, there are a number of factors I'm sure... But if I dump a bag of Scott's on 5000 sq ft., how much N could I lose on sandy soil with no rain... It's not being used by the plant, so does it stay there or does it volitize to some degree? How about clay with lot's of water? There are a number of different scenarios, but certainly not beyond the general comprehension of certain criteria...

I have seen various 'baselines' in the past , so I was hoping that this type of research has been refined and simplified....
Im not trying to be a pain in the azz, but even this will vary depending on what type of slow release N you have. Some are released from moisture activation and some by microbial activity. I think the key is to use a high percentage of slow release fert and only apply the amount that the turf will use at any given time, so timing is key. Light spoon feeding frequently would be ideal but just not practical. The one app "spread it and forget it" has a season long slow release mode of action. I think all applications will have some N volatilize but not necessarily leaching.
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Old 01-23-2011, 09:11 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
However, the recycling of carbon and nutrients by natural processes alone, do not accomplish the yeild or color of the grasses that people have come to expect.

For that reason, additional N is required. Conventional wisdom to the client, with no technical understanding whatsoever...
I don't agree. Nutrient requirements need to be assessed on a site by site basis, and it is possible to have a spectacular lawn with no "additional N".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
My focus here is to determine the amount of N lost, AND the form in which it is lost,
This cannot be easily determined. Fertilize on observed need, not perceived need.
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Old 01-23-2011, 09:34 AM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dKoester View Post
http://www.humates.com/pdf/nvsc.pdf This basically states that humus anchors nitrogen in the soil and without it you can loose alot of N per year.
For those who have not read this link, it also states that synthetic N over time depletes soil organic carbon and soil N due to the increase of certain microbial activity that breaks down organic matter so fast it prevents humus from forming. These microbes also out compete N fixing bacteria in the soil.

This is a new perspective to me. Tim, Kiril do you have any info on this conclusion?
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Old 01-23-2011, 11:41 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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So I can say there is a 25% leaching of 'water souable N", in sandy soil with SOM < 4.25%, but only a 13% leaching on a heavy loam with SOM > than 3.5%...

Forget about volatization, because that occurs everytime the soil surface is dried for more than 5 hours. It's just like dumping it out on a sidewalk.

Since there is nothing written to prove that these figures are erroneous, I could use them because, my detractors would have to prove that these things do not occur, under the circumstances I have laid out...

That's OK... I can research it myself...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
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Old 01-23-2011, 01:40 PM
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JDUtah JDUtah is offline
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Actually, a soils CEC is also a factor to consider while evaluating leach potential. Of course SOM affects this, but you must consider CEC, and amount of moisture, porosity of soil, etc before you can assume any % leach potential.
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