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  #21  
Old 01-25-2011, 09:47 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICT Bill View Post
EXACTLY
as a lay person, compared to the folks that wrote those papers in their extremely narrow perspective of exactly what they needed to regurgitate in order to meet their goals for a grant, how do you understand the narrow perspective and grow it into a positive for your business to grow customers and stay profitable?

to constantly say "read the papers" is ludicrous, not only do they not have the background to understand the science but they typically do not have the time as they are raising families and working to pay bills

The better tract is to helpfully explain

apologies if I spoke down to anyone, it is just something I have been wanting to say for a while
If you can't understand what is being discussed in the papers, then ask questions after reading the paper instead of asking people to spoon feed you. In the same vein of thought as yours, it is ludicrous to expect people who have spent many years educating themselves in these fields to spend the time to "spell it out" to people who won't take at least some initiative to learn on their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
How does one access them without having to pay for them?
You want to learn, then either find the paper where you can access it for free, go to your local public library and see if they carry the journal, or buy it.

Second .... how about you actually search for the papers instead of expecting me or Tim to do it for you?

https://www.soils.org/publications/jeq/pdfs/36/6/1821

https://www.soils.org/publications/jeq/pdfs/38/6/2295

Why do you expect people to do your leg work and/or pay for these articles for you? I don't mind helping people out from time to time, but I gotta draw the line somewhere, especially when it comes to distributors who are looking for a new sales pitch and expect others to do their homework for them.

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Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
And how does a lay person make sense of scientific jargon?
Look it up or ask someone who does know. This is what education is all about. Even with my broad education in these fields of study I sometimes have a hard time following the papers. That said, I don't expect people to spoon feed me and I either look up what I don't understand or ask intelligent and specific questions about what I don't understand after I have exhausted all other avenues.

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Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
I can do without your rolling of the eyes.
Those were initially for JD, but given the above .......
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  #22  
Old 01-25-2011, 09:55 AM
NattyLawn NattyLawn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
How does one access them without having to pay for them? And how does a lay person make sense of scientific jargon?
I can do without your rolling of the eyes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICT Bill View Post
EXACTLY
as a lay person, compared to the folks that wrote those papers in their extremely narrow perspective of exactly what they needed to regurgitate in order to meet their goals for a grant, how do you understand the narrow perspective and grow it into a positive for your business to grow customers and stay profitable?

to constantly say "read the papers" is ludicrous, not only do they not have the background to understand the science but they typically do not have the time as they are raising families and working to pay bills

The better tract is to helpfully explain

apologies if I spoke down to anyone, it is just something I have been wanting to say for a while
Now, isn't it your job as sales people to sift through that material and then figure out a way to tell your customers or potential customers? Why give someone the answer when you can point them towards the answer and let them figure things out on their own? I like the fact that Kiril points out misinformation that seems to permeate this board. I love the threads where people that haven't used products or have no clue what they're talking about give "opinions" as fact.
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  #23  
Old 01-25-2011, 12:26 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NattyLawn View Post
... Why give someone the answer when you can point them towards the answer and let them figure things out on their own? ...
That is when a forum is actually a forum, when you can give an answer, idea or concept, instead of a reading list. I can find my own reading lists, but it is good when people are there to help, 'talk it through' with you. Help the relevant information sink in to your thought processes...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #24  
Old 01-25-2011, 12:55 PM
NattyLawn NattyLawn is offline
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Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
That is when a forum is actually a forum, when you can give an answer, idea or concept, instead of a reading list. I can find my own reading lists, but it is good when people are there to help, 'talk it through' with you. Help the relevant information sink in to your thought processes...
OK, I get it. That's why this country is the way it is.
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  #25  
Old 01-25-2011, 12:55 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
That is when a forum is actually a forum, when you can give an answer, idea or concept, instead of a reading list. I can find my own reading lists, but it is good when people are there to help, 'talk it through' with you. Help the relevant information sink in to your thought processes...
There is a difference between helping people through a thought process and spoon feeding them information so they can regurgitate it without really understanding what they are regurgitating. If you want to take the initiative to learn, and show that you have, then I have no problem with "talking it through" when I have the time, and have done so in the past with many people on this site. That said, when people make blanket requests for information and have shown little or no effort on their own part to learn or find the information on their own, then I am not inclined to help. Then you have those people who like to talk out of their ass which IMO destroy the entire learning process on any forum. Also, no offense intended Axe, but one of the reasons I can supply relevant and credible "reading lists" is because I know what to search for. It is difficult to find material if you don't know what to search for or where to search for it.
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  #26  
Old 01-25-2011, 01:14 PM
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JDUtah JDUtah is offline
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It's ok guys, while you may have a hard time following academic talk, Kiril didn't even know what 21-0-0 was.

And yet he speaks of his comprehensive "field experience"?



Let the people who want to buy into his political BS answers buy into them.

One thing good about Kiril is his ego. If you question it just enough, you can leverage him to do just about anything. It's like free labor!
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  #27  
Old 01-25-2011, 01:15 PM
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JDUtah JDUtah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Also, no offense intended Axe, but one of the reasons I can supply relevant and credible "reading lists" is because I know what to search for. It is difficult to find material if you don't know what to search for or where to search for it.
So, how do we search for this information? Where do we search for this information? How do we find it on our own? What tricks do you use to find these things Kiril?
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  #28  
Old 01-25-2011, 01:26 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDUtah View Post
It's ok guys, while you may have a hard time following academic talk, Kiril didn't even know what 21-0-0 was.
And you do? Tell me JD .... what type of N is in 21-0-0?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDUtah View Post
Let the people who want to buy into his political BS answers buy into them.
I have no politics. In fact I despise everything political, but don't let that stop you from talking shiit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDUtah View Post
One thing good about Kiril is his ego. If you question it just enough, you can leverage him to do just about anything. It's like free labor!
One good thing about JD .................................................................................... ah hell, can't come up with anything.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JDUtah View Post
So, how do we search for this information? Where do we search for this information? How do we find it on our own? What tricks do you use to find these things Kiril?
Get an education.
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  #29  
Old 01-25-2011, 02:56 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NattyLawn View Post
OK, I get it. That's why this country is the way it is.
Unclear as to what that response was about?
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #30  
Old 01-25-2011, 03:13 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
There is a difference between helping people through a thought process and spoon feeding them information so they can regurgitate it without really understanding what they are regurgitating. If you want to take the initiative to learn, and show that you have, then I have no problem with "talking it through" when I have the time, and have done so in the past with many people on this site. That said, when people make blanket requests for information and have shown little or no effort on their own part to learn or find the information on their own, then I am not inclined to help. Then you have those people who like to talk out of their ass which IMO destroy the entire learning process on any forum. Also, no offense intended Axe, but one of the reasons I can supply relevant and credible "reading lists" is because I know what to search for. It is difficult to find material if you don't know what to search for or where to search for it.
Agreed, and basically the 'spoon fed' info. is not what is needed. Understanding the question is usu. the biggest hurdle. Attempting a discussion, about the actual question, would normally be the second hurdle, unless of course, there are too many factors to even attempt at understanding the processes at hand...

I did find some of what I was looking for, though not specific in certain applications, it did illuminate what we might expect under various conditions and times of the year... I talk to myself about the relevancy and application to lawn and garden care. Or I could talk to others that share the common interest... if not so what?
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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