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  #51  
Old 01-28-2011, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob7233 View Post
summarize it - was that most SA (Floratam in this case) is actually environmentally friendly in it's ability to hold and filter fertilizer leachate and runoff. Compared to Zoysia, Floratam had at least a 50% advantage.
Yep, that was it, thanks for refreshing my memory Rob. And you pointed out the key points that I now can remember a little more clearly. SA floratam had the ability in our soils to create the deepest roots during the peak growth periods. And if I remember correctly Palmetto had next deepest rooting and also and as a result showed a lower level of leaching? Well of the cultivators commonly available to us commercially.
And if I recall correctly, this was actually a study that was concerned with drought tolerance that brought the current research that is underway about the nutrient uptake/leaching.
The current information being given through the extension also says that if you apply the orange county guidelines for fertilizer applications - virtually all of the nutrients will be used.

I do not remember them handing out any information on this do you Rob? If you they did and you have it give me a copy and I will post for everyone to discuss here.
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  #52  
Old 01-28-2011, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Geist Yard Works View Post
And if I recall correctly, this was actually a study that was concerned with drought tolerance that brought the current research that is underway about the nutrient uptake/leaching.
This study?

http://itc.tamu.edu/documents/St.%20...%20Steinke.pdf
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  #53  
Old 01-28-2011, 10:28 AM
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Not to my knowledge Kiril, unless it is shared data, this was a U of F study. I know I have the publication about the drought tolerance somewhere I will try to find it or a link to it.
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  #54  
Old 01-28-2011, 10:36 AM
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Thanks Rob

I was out late last night and just logged on this morning. BTW I do have a social life outside of Lawnsite. I see You are a team player and post from memory in your own layman terms. Too bad more people don't do that instead of posting links. Many years ago I found you don't have to talk like Einstein to impress people.
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  #55  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:55 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Many years ago I found that people who post misleading and incorrect information on public forums do more harm than good. Nothing good comes from inaccurate information, be it expressed in "layman" terms or not. In fact, the reason why some people on this site have problems with me is because they cannot accurately reproduce what they read. They either forget what they have read, misinterpret what they have read, or intentionally misrepresent it.

Is it really too much to ask people to verify their information against credible sources before posting? What possibly good can come from people presenting opinion as fact?

You want my input on this issue again (getting really tired of repeating myself) ..... if people managed their soil instead of their plants, many of these pollution problems would go away. This means managing your soil in a fashion that minimizes potentially harmful inputs (eg. ferts and pesticides), and for locations that irrigate, managing your irrigation to maximize your soil resources with minimal losses. Proper landscape/lawn management isn't as simple as deciding which slow release fert you are going to put down this year, or which "y-not" pesticide you are going to blanket spray, and the sooner people understand that, the better off we will all be.
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  #56  
Old 01-28-2011, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Many years ago I found that people who post misleading and incorrect information on public forums do more harm than good. Nothing good comes from inaccurate information, be it expressed in "layman" terms or not. In fact, the reason why some people on this site have problems with me is because they cannot accurately reproduce what they read. They either forget what they have read, misinterpret what they have read, or intentionally misrepresent it.

Is it really too much to ask people to verify their information against credible sources before posting?
What possibly good can come from people presenting opinion as fact?

You want my input on this issue again (getting really tired of repeating myself) ..... if people managed their soil instead of their plants, many of these pollution problems would go away. This means managing your soil in a fashion that minimizes potentially harmful inputs (eg. ferts and pesticides), and for locations that irrigate, managing your irrigation to maximize your soil resources with minimal losses. Proper landscape/lawn management isn't as simple as deciding which slow release fert you are going to put down this year, or which "y-not" pesticide you are going to blanket spray, and the sooner people understand that, the better off we will all be.
Kiril

For one last time. KNOW YOUR AUDIENCES, THIS IS NOT A UNIVERSITY DOCTORAL PAPER FOR A PhD WE ARE POSTING HERE. This is a a group of Yard Boys sharing opinions.

Since you didn't learn to play well with others as a child, Maybe you can try and learn to play well with adults.
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  #57  
Old 01-28-2011, 01:12 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by Ric View Post
Kiril

For one last time. KNOW YOUR AUDIENCES, THIS IS NOT A UNIVERSITY DOCTORAL PAPER FOR A PhD WE ARE POSTING HERE. This is a a group of Yard Boys sharing opinions.

Since you didn't learn to play well with others as a child, Maybe you can try and learn to play well with adults.
Always have to make a childish comment, don't you?

You know what Ric .... if people can't grasp the concepts of proper soil and water management they have no business working in this field. This is a forum for professionals, correct? Why do you keep making excuses for these professionals and assuming they are too stupid to understand anything other than information that has been dumbed down to the point of being inaccurate?

Either give them the correct information and resources so they can learn how to do it right, or don't say anything at all. Why you (or anyone else) feels the need to reproduce what has been written a thousand times over by credible sources in "laymen terms" (many times inaccurately) is beyond me. Provide the resources for people to learn straight from the horses mouth, and let them decide how to use the information.
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  #58  
Old 01-28-2011, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Always have to make a childish comment, don't you?

You know what Ric .... if people can't grasp the concepts of proper soil and water management they have no business working in this field. This is a forum for professionals, correct? Why do you keep making excuses for these professionals and assuming they are too stupid to understand anything other than information that has been dumbed down to the point of being inaccurate?

Either give them the correct information and resources so they can learn how to do it right, or don't say anything at all. Why you (or anyone else) feels the need to reproduce what has been written a thousand times over by credible sources in "laymen terms" (many times inaccurately) is beyond me. Provide the resources for people to learn straight from the horses mouth, and let them decide how to use the information.
Kiril


One more time you are missing the point. It is not WHAT you do But HOW you do it.

We are all trying to do proper soil management but Proper Soil Management doesn't have to have a University degree attached to each grain of sand to be good.

If I say Nitrogen causes Cell elongation and that is what makes grass grow, Do I need to supply a university link as a credible source??????? Oh sure you can find multiply essay on grass growing on the Internet that explains the total Metabolism of turf. BUT IS EVERY THING ON THE INTERNET CORRECT. Go into a University office shared by two PhDs and ask One question. You will get a minimum of 3 answers. Each will have their answer and together they might offer a third answer if not 4th. We have all found Misinformation on University websites at one time or an other.

KIRIL WE ARE TALKING COMMON SENSE HERE. Something I strongly suggest you should investigate
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  #59  
Old 01-28-2011, 02:11 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Here we go again .... your typical common sense bull. Let me tell you something about common sense Ric. Common sense says don't use plants that are inappropriate for your soils and climate. Common sense says manage the natural resources you have in a fashion that limits the amount of potentially harmful inputs. Common sense says use sustainable resources in your management programs. Common sense says to fertilize based on determined need, not some generic industry recommendation. Common sense says to arm yourself with as much knowledge as you can so you can make the best informed decision possible. Common sense says don't get your information from people who think you are too stupid to understand the topic in detail. These are some of the common sense things that responsible people do.

Now lets talk about your University comments. I am not the one here who only considers publications that agree with your "team" philosophy as being valid ... this thread being case in point. Someone who is truly objective will look at all the information, research and data that is available in order to make the best informed decision based on ALL current knowledge .... not just the research or data that fits your agenda or "team" philosophy.

FYI .... while you might find some PhD's will disagree on certain subjects or issues, especially those that are open to interpretation, you will find way more subjects they agree on. There is hordes of information available that is WELL established science, and your suggestion to the contrary is nothing short of absurd.

Last edited by Kiril; 01-28-2011 at 02:16 PM.
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  #60  
Old 01-28-2011, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric View Post
Kiril


One more time you are missing the point. It is not WHAT you do But HOW you do it. ........If I say Nitrogen causes Cell elongation and that is what makes grass grow, Do I need to supply a university link as a credible source???????
Maybe YOU are missing Kiril's point. Let me say that I understand more about language than I know about soil biology.

Without debating the accuracy of your statement "If I say Nitrogen.....etc."
There is some potentially tricky wording. "Causes" in your sentence, for instance, implies that nitrogen is the only possible cause and no other factor comes into play.
Furthermore "cell elongation" is "that" which makes grass grow also suggests there is nothing else which makes it grow. The word "grow" could even be interpreted in different ways.

So I think Kiril is just looking for accuracy in the way one would put scientific information into laymen's terms. Some people are way too sloppy in their use of words so he prefers the carefully worded studies.
That's how I view what he has said. (in many threads)
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