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  #11  
Old 09-10-2002, 03:19 PM
bill--bls bill--bls is offline
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Location: Bakersfield,Ca.
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HBFOXJR and SPRINKLERGUY


I totally agree with both of you, we are the same way, if you can't make the $$$ on the job and do it the way you know is right, walk away. None of us should be in this game for our health alone, if you can't sleep at night for what ever reason it night be time to try something else
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  #12  
Old 09-10-2002, 08:05 PM
HBFOXJr HBFOXJr is offline
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Location: Southern New Jersey
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And I'll add that every man hour your throw away on some less than satisfactory business endeavor is an hour you could have made some dollars with the right service, product or job.

You really have to know your numbers, what they mean and how to use them to your advantage to be on top or climb on top from a hole.

A lot of you young'ins think you know the numbers but unless you have a good business education, were taught by a knowledgeable family member or employer or took some workshops as I did years ago, your probably fooling yourself.

There are still a ton of things I don't know and I don't do well and I continue to seek answers and educate myself. Marketing is still a big, big mystery to me as the target always seems to be changing.
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  #13  
Old 09-10-2002, 08:28 PM
Mataman Mataman is offline
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I never claimed to "know it all" or even hinted in that matter. And yes I do have a good business education, and yes I was taught by a knowledgeable family member and a previous employer and one more "yes" I do know my numbers, what they mean and how to use them to my advantage to be on top, at least for my marketing area and that's one thing you guys haven't taken into account, different M A R K E T I N G A R E A S. You have good form on technical advice but little savvy in people skills.
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  #14  
Old 09-10-2002, 08:50 PM
HBFOXJr HBFOXJr is offline
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Mataman

My comments were made as generalizations. Don't take it personal. If I want to say something personal, I'll email you or put your name at the top like this.

I do stick by generalizations. If they shoe doesn't fit you, no problem.
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  #15  
Old 09-10-2002, 09:24 PM
SprinklerGuy SprinklerGuy is offline
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Location: Scottsdale, Arizona/Colorado Springs, Colorado
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My people skills do suck........especially on here when over the last year or so I've tried to help but get nowhere. Everyone knows more about my business than I do. So, now I jump at the chance to rattle a cage or two. I may not be right all the time, but my guess is that 8 or 9 times out of 10, that cage deserves to be rattled.

As for a system in the panhandle of Florida......you probably aren't near as competitive there as we are in Scottsdale. Fastest growing city in the US....one of them anyway. Most people here are from somewhere in the midwest and they know everything too! Because of that we have lots of competition. But, I can tell you this....there is no way I would install an 8 valve system for 2400 bucks.....sounds like a side job to me!

Sell your smarts not your price. I haven't starved yet and still haven't put a system in where the parts probably cost me close to 1/2 of my price! Wow!

$270 for the I-20's and swing arms etc
$220 for the Pro sprays and swing arms etc
$120 for the DV valves and related components
$100 ish for the timer?

We are at roughly 700 bucks without pipe and misc. fittings......OUCH!....
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  #16  
Old 09-10-2002, 10:15 PM
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DanaMac DanaMac is online now
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Location: Somewhere in the state of CO
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Quote:
Find some ways to cut costs, not necessarily cut corners though
I hope you all don't think I meant put in an unsatisfactory system with the above comment. I meant find someways to cut down the size or options on the system. Maybe take out the rain sensor or offer it as an option. Maybe they can reduce the size of the lawn irrigated. Or possibly go with a timer that is comparable but less expensive - Hunter SRC instead of Rainbird ESP. That type of stuff. I am hurting for work - big time. But I still won't drop my price to well below my norm, or put in a shoddy system.

Tony - I'll call you when I get back.
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  #17  
Old 09-10-2002, 10:19 PM
SprinklerGuy SprinklerGuy is offline
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I don't think we would ever accuse you of that Mr. Dana. There are more than 100 ways to skin a cat right? I think finding those ways can be tough but once you do, your on to something. Maybe I can help a little too!

As for your trip, give your mom a hug man! I'll pray for you guys! Take care, be safe.
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  #18  
Old 09-10-2002, 10:57 PM
Mataman Mataman is offline
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My apologizes to all I've offended, I too have been on a few other boards for a year and I know what you mean by people knowing it all. I've tried to help others but there's always some yahoo that gets his kicks off of bossing others and is quick to critize, so once again I'm sorry but I will not put up with people telling me I'm wrong especially when they don't know my area and the quality of my work.

Quote:
My people skills do suck........especially on here when over the last year or so I've tried to help but get nowhere. Everyone knows more about my business than I do
seems like you know mine better than myself.

Cutting corners; well in FL it is mandated by law to install a rain sensor with every new sprinkler system. And hell I just laid the pipe on the ground. My total cost was less than 1k and had the usual spare parts left over, extra ends, tee's etc...

$164.85 for the I-20's and swing arms etc
$120 for the Pro spraysw/nozzles and flex pipe with barbed ends, got a special, free nozzles with a case of PS! yahoo!!
$98 for the DV valves
$75.91 for the timer
$21 for sensor
$195 for pipe
$60 for various fittings
$48.5 for 250ft 9/18
and $200 for misc

This isn't richy ditzy Scotsdale but we too are growing fairly quick. Competition here is pure cutt-throat and if you where here in Panama City you'd love to put in an 8-zone for 2400, side job or not.

I also notice that somebody mentioned something like $500 per zone. I don't price my jobs by this method but I've heard $250-$350 per zone in my neck of the woods. Which gives you some kind of idea what the market is here.
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  #19  
Old 09-11-2002, 07:35 AM
SprinklerGuy SprinklerGuy is offline
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Okay, it is as bad as you say.....sorry to hear that. good luck
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  #20  
Old 09-11-2002, 09:18 AM
HBFOXJr HBFOXJr is offline
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One huge variable is labor costs. Laborers here are a minimum of $10/hr, skilled crew boss $16-$20. Skilled meaning can do layout from instructions, plumbing skills, operate equipment, train & supervise them below him and talk to and educate clients in how and when to run the system.

You better offer health ins, uniforms free and possibly paid holidays and sick days. Of course hours after 40 are overtime rate.

If you work under gorund or not by the rules and pay legally or other wise $8-$10/hr cash or straight time the savings are enormous.

You get rid of health insurance to the tune of several dollars/hr, SS, WC, unemployment, and liability ins is reduced or eliminated for many more $$$/hr saved.

Not saying anyone posting here does it but WE ALL know it is going on.

And we know it becasue the pasrts are the same across the country, a truck, trencher or puller or phone bill is about the same across the country. The labor game isn't whether it is legit or not.
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