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  #331  
Old 07-07-2011, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtreem3d View Post
tom,
what i meant was do you compact the pavers with no sand on them to set them before adding sand?
Steve
Oh i thought you were talking about the beading sand. haha

What we do is sweep poly sand in, compact, sweep in again, sweep off, then blow off with leaf blower, then wet in. Only one compaction after the first sweep in.

Most people have their own way of doing it.
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  #332  
Old 07-07-2011, 08:28 PM
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STL Ponds and Waterfalls STL Ponds and Waterfalls is offline
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Originally Posted by TomG View Post
How do you like it? Does it come off easily or do you compact dirt with it on also?
If it's like mine it will come off in a few seconds as long as the 2 bolts don't get seized. So hit them with a little antiseize.
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  #333  
Old 07-07-2011, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by STL Ponds and Waterfalls View Post
Is that Chris that owns Natures rec? For the pavers cracking that will happen on occasion. You can also tie or bolt a dumptruck mudflap to your compactor. I've never done it, but I heard it somewhere on the net.
yes it's chris....might try a mudflap 'til i get this http://www.pavetech.com/tools/paversaver.shtm
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  #334  
Old 07-07-2011, 09:37 PM
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Tom,

I've looked at the pics of the big patio with the stone retaining / surround wall.

The guys are dressed like it's cold outside Which tells me the weather is similar to the weather at my house.

Is that masonry surround wall not on a frost footer? The pics don't show a footer, maybe I'm missing that step of the project?



.
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  #335  
Old 07-07-2011, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post
Tom,

I've looked at the pics of the big patio with the stone retaining / surround wall.

The guys are dressed like it's cold outside Which tells me the weather is similar to the weather at my house.

Is that masonry surround wall not on a frost footer? The pics don't show a footer, maybe I'm missing that step of the project?



.
It is not on a frost footer. Its hard to tell from the pictures but the front of the wall is buried about a foot and the back about 2.5ft then the brick is over that. To be honest with you we know very little about stone and mortar work, we trust our mason fully, he has been in business for well over 20 years and it probably one of the top 5 masons in New Hampshire. He told me how he wanted it preped and that's what I did. It is not our area of expertise, but I have no doubt in my mind that it will survive the new England winters.
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  #336  
Old 07-07-2011, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomG View Post
It is not on a frost footer. Its hard to tell from the pictures but the front of the wall is buried about a foot and the back about 2.5ft then the brick is over that. To be honest with you we know very little about stone and mortar work, we trust our mason fully, he has been in business for well over 20 years and it probably one of the top 5 masons in New Hampshire. He told me how he wanted it preped and that's what I did. It is not our area of expertise, but I have no doubt in my mind that it will survive the new England winters.
Well Tom, we all know I am good at finding fault in workmanship. And I know I've picked apart your work in the past.

I am buddies with TThomass and a while back he posted pics similar to the wall pics you have. And I asked him why he has masonry work that's floating on the ground. The responses that followed were in agreement with me. I'm not trying to expolit anyone, I'm simply implying that if I see something concerning, and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's not the best move - I'll bring it to light.

Tom, I think all of us contractors like to think we have the "best" masons, plumbers, etc. So, let's not take that statement into consideration.

I believe your winters are harsher than winter here where I am. And yes, I initially took into consideration that the back of the wall is buried in patio material prior to raising my concern

Here where I live, for the last two years the ground has frozen 12-inches deep. Our frostline is 32-inches. This means when we work with concrete, masonry, or timber framing, we must excavate 32-inches below grade. Pour a concrete slab, and build from there. It's my personal opinion that we could get away with doing footers only 24-inches deep, but then just *what if* we have that ONE year where that ground actually freezes 22-inches!!?!? It's cheap insurance.

Last year I was pissed that they were asphalt paving in 28-degree temps, so I went out to my dirt pile and broke into the top of it and took pics of the frozen shell of soil, which froze in a mere 12 hrs!

(spoken in a serious "I'm trying to help you tone") I can say this with the upmost confidence (and keep in mind, we work year round, so I see what the ground is doing) and respect - the 12-inches of earth you have around the front of your wall is NOT enough to prevent the bottom of that wall from rising up and down during the winter months. And I'm certain the majority here will agree with me, based on this subject coming up in the past. An 18-inch freeze isn't limited to straight down, that freeze goes in all directions, down, up, and side to side; like an ice cube, if you will.

We did a demo job this past January. During the day we had 2-3 days where temps reached a high of 8-degrees. And believe me, when the ground froze - in our particular case the heaving was obvious. It was actually kinda neat to work there one day with warm temps and return 12 hrs later to near zero temps and actually see the changes that took place with the ground, kinda like a science experiment. The imprints in the soil from the truck tires had doubled in size, and that's no exageration, it looked like we had parked a monster truck in the yard!

The masonry work for that wall does look very nice. Based on the presumption that your winters are similar to ours or more extreme, a job like that NEEDS a frost footer. You can't do a $30k(+) job and leave out the correct steps. CRITICAL. IMPERATIVE.


,



.
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My Equipment Brag List:

-1 CAT hat
-16 pairs of Hanes socks (the Heavy Duty model), many with holes.
-12 pairs of underwear, ranging from Joe Boxers to Jockey, many are in need of replacement. (no more photo requests please)
-hundreds of t-shirts. Some w/ grease stains, some torn & tattered.
-7 pairs of jeans, ranging from Levis to Polo to GAP. 1/2 of them have holes in 'em.
-1 belt
-1 pair of old worn out Nike shoes.

Last edited by DVS Hardscaper; 07-07-2011 at 10:31 PM.
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  #337  
Old 07-07-2011, 10:59 PM
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Our frost typically goes to 4' and sometimes up to 8' deep. On average we have 2 or 3 winters every decade where the frost ruptures water lines, they are 8' deep. We don't install fence posts or any concrete for that matter below 5' on average. If we were to do a footing as you are describing we would install a layer of styrafoam sm 2" then pour our concrete footing on that. This will help prevent frost from getting below and shifting the wall. Maybe his guy did that?
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  #338  
Old 07-07-2011, 11:08 PM
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Ruptured main water lines is a prime example and probably the best example of what happens below grade during the winter.




,
__________________
"It's You vs. You"

"People Throw Rocks At Things That Shine"


My Equipment Brag List:

-1 CAT hat
-16 pairs of Hanes socks (the Heavy Duty model), many with holes.
-12 pairs of underwear, ranging from Joe Boxers to Jockey, many are in need of replacement. (no more photo requests please)
-hundreds of t-shirts. Some w/ grease stains, some torn & tattered.
-7 pairs of jeans, ranging from Levis to Polo to GAP. 1/2 of them have holes in 'em.
-1 belt
-1 pair of old worn out Nike shoes.
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  #339  
Old 07-08-2011, 01:25 PM
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2low4NH 2low4NH is offline
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Alright guys I can say with confidence this wall should hold up. I am a 4th generation mason we specialize in stone work. 50+ years now all of our walls are still standing I did not look at his base but I can tell you we very rarely do a concrete footer under our walls.
I am also 20 minutes away from them so we have the same winters.
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  #340  
Old 07-08-2011, 01:37 PM
mxridernorth mxridernorth is online now
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Originally Posted by 2low4NH View Post
Alright guys I can say with confidence this wall should hold up. I am a 4th generation mason we specialize in stone work. 50+ years now all of our walls are still standing I did not look at his base but I can tell you we very rarely do a concrete footer under our walls.
I am also 20 minutes away from them so we have the same winters.
But DVS already lectured on the subject so you must be wrong.
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