Cat 259B3...

[Ozz]

What's up with the lap bar going over the HVAC controls with 1/2 inch clearance?

Other than that, nice machine from what I could tell without running it. Visibility was good everywhere, and the cab was very comfortable.

[bobcat_ron]

I am surprised they haven't switched the interior HVAC filter to the inside, that's a modification that needs to be done ASAP.

[stuvecorp]

Originally Posted by Ozz

What's up with the lap bar going over the HVAC controls with 1/2 inch clearance?

Other than that, nice machine from what I could tell without running it. Visibility was good everywhere, and the cab was very comfortable.

Remember it's not PowerTan...

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by stuvecorp

Remember it's not PowerTan...

I hate to say it, but I think this has the new PowerTan machines beat if it has any power.

[stuvecorp]

Originally Posted by Ozz

I hate to say it, but I think this has the new PowerTan machines beat if it has any power.

What?

No soup for you!!

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by stuvecorp

What?

No soup for you!!

I really don't like the new Case machines, lacking "big block" engines. If this is what Cat will be putting out in the near future, I think this would by my choice, but only when comparing it to the other machines in the future of this industry.

I still think the baby 435 with VTS has it beat, but soon I won't be able to buy a 440S3, or a 435.

At the end of the day, it utterly kills Bobcat.

The Kubota unit (SVL 90) was sadly lacking. The bucket hydraulics blocked your view of the cutting edge completely. The cab was too wide, and I had a hard time seeing out the side to the tracks. The Cat had the rear visibilitty beat, but the 435 had it beat, too.

[stuvecorp]

Originally Posted by Ozz

I really don't like the new Case machines, lacking "big block" engines. If this is what Cat will be putting out in the near future, I think this would by my choice, but only when comparing it to the other machines in the future of this industry.

I still think the baby 435 with VTS has it beat, but soon I won't be able to buy a 440S3, or a 435.

At the end of the day, it utterly kills Bobcat.

The Kubota unit (SVL 90) was sadly lacking. The bucket hydraulics blocked your view of the cutting edge completely. The cab was too wide, and I had a hard time seeing out the side to the tracks. The Cat had the rear visibilitty beat, but the 435 had it beat, too.

I understand and agree with you on the 'big block' stance. To me that is one of Case's characteristics but unfortunately the emissions are killing the machines. I know Shane said he could tell the difference in torque. The new machines may not be at the same high level as the 4.5 motor but if they can be close and get better fuel consumption I guess it's okay. It sounds like and I thought the new Alpha Case cabs look like they are a big step up. I still think even with the smaller Case motors can beat what Cat has for power and the Case will likely be more affordable. Look at the new Terex wheeled skids, barely 200 ft pounds in torque compared to what 250 for the Case?

Interesting about the Kubota, makes me wonder why they bothered after delaying the release for so long?

If you want a 440S3 with VTS - I can hook you up...

[Digdeep]

Originally Posted by stuvecorp

I understand and agree with you on the 'big block' stance. To me that is one of Case's characteristics but unfortunately the emissions are killing the machines. I know Shane said he could tell the difference in torque. The new machines may not be at the same high level as the 4.5 motor but if they can be close and get better fuel consumption I guess it's okay. It sounds like and I thought the new Alpha Case cabs look like they are a big step up. I still think even with the smaller Case motors can beat what Cat has for power and the Case will likely be more affordable. Look at the new Terex wheeled skids, barely 200 ft pounds in torque compared to what 250 for the Case?

Interesting about the Kubota, makes me wonder why they bothered after delaying the release for so long?

If you want a 440S3 with VTS - I can hook you up...

I have heard that CAT (and Terex to some extent) will be using the same 3.2L longstroke engine to meet Tier IV. I already know that Perkins and Fiat have signed an agreement to share that engine because my Case saleman showed me the news release. If this is the case (no pun intended), it looks like everyone will peak out at around 252ft lbs of torque. Deere's 3.1L 5cyl engine puts out 251ft lbs.
Posted via Mobile Device

[stuvecorp]

Originally Posted by Digdeep

I have heard that CAT (and Terex to some extent) will be using the same 3.2L longstroke engine to meet Tier IV. I already know that Perkins and Fiat have signed an agreement to share that engine because my Case saleman showed me the news release. If this is the case (no pun intended), it looks like everyone will peak out at around 252ft lbs of torque. Deere's 3.1L 5cyl engine puts out 251ft lbs.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yeah, not real thrilled about that. Again thanks to the stupid eco rules this is what we get.

[ksss]

When CAT starts putting the CNH engine in their machines, it will level the engine playing field. Like mentioned, everyones largest machines will be around 250 foot pounds. That will be a substantial increase for CAT which has never broken 220 foot pounds before.

Interesting comments on the Kubota, I ran the smaller machine, but had about the same view as Ozz. Really not impressed, I thought they would have been a lot more competative than that. Not to say they wont sell a few, I am sure the Kubota faithfull will see to that. However I don't think the North American end user had a lot to say about that machine, at least it doesn't seem like it.

Things are changing or shall I say evolving and there is not much to do about it other than embrace it and move forward. I think it is ironic since the CAT guy who never bought a machine based on its superior engine performance (if they were, they would never have bought a CAT in the first place), he will actually see a substantial improvement in engine performance (with the CNH engines), the CASE guy who has lost 38 foot pounds of torque now has to get acclimated to a more CAT like performance standard which is to say higher hp with less displacement and less torque.

I don't doubt that CNH will lose a few faithful from the NH and CASE lines that the others may pickup. However from the CASE side I am not sure who would pick them up. No one is still offering a S3 style machine. Deere likely will be the landing spot for the pissed off NH guys. I also think that CNH will pickup some customers that they could not sell to before. This is especially true on the lower end of the ROC lineup. I tried to keep an open mind when running the machines and came impressed with what where they ended up, as I mentioned before though they needed to go farther with the E/H. If the machines hold up and perform OVERALL like the machines they replaced all will be good. Although there were some step backs (reach, torque) there were numerous steps forward (cab, affordability, available hyd performance, fuel consumption, engine recovery). The CNH customer finally has a cab that he can feel good about spending the money on. The S-3 cab was ok this new one is much better.

Here is the other issue all of us need to think about. As the new tier requirments inch forward and start impacting (even more) the machines that all of us here use (DEF for example), you can buy now or you can pay even more later (both in money and asss tax). The engine technology is not getting cheaper, its a bitter pill to swallow but it will get even more bitter as time goes on.