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Old 03-26-2011, 08:33 PM
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AllAmericanlawn AllAmericanlawn is offline
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Originally Posted by billyyy34 View Post
As a nation we shouldn't have to compete with third world countries or thier wages. It's impossible,it can't be done. I would venture to bet that most self employed guys on this site are making less now than they where 5 years ago. The American consumer has been brainwashed into believing that they have to pay the lowest price to get the best deal. American manufacturing in this country is probably gone forever and so are the real well paying jobs that go with it. People in this country need to insist that real jobs and manufacturing be brought back home. I don't care about the people in China or anywhere else for that matter. The illegal population in this country is only making matters worse. They've lowered the payscale significantly for most of the trades. They use hopsitals as walk in clinics and make our health insurance cost more. They've bankrupted countless hospitals in Southern CA. They manage to get onto social programs you or I can't get, at our expense. Don't forget now that you're probably already working for less or working much harder to make what you used to. They need to go but too many liberal politicians in this country try to brainwash the public that they perform a valuable service.
Sorry to rant..............
BINGO!!!! You said it perfectly!
Old 03-26-2011, 09:54 PM
tallrick tallrick is offline
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Never forget the true reason that illegals have brought down the nation. The financialization of our economy funnels more and more money to the unproductive, leaving small business to fight over the scraps. The Federal Reserve creates trillions of funny money to give free loans to their rich banker buddies. Have you ever stopped to think of where most of your income goes? Not on toys but to the unproductive fat cats. The FIRE economy, (Finance Insurance Real Estate ) produces nothing but acts as a toll collector on the economic highway. Your income taxes go to finance wars and pay interest for the fat cats, and everything you buy on payments does the same. Over 70% of most incomes pay taxes and mortages, car payments, credit cards etc. This goes largely to pay multi=million or billon dollar salaries for the unproductive. Government regulations hinder legal businesses so illegal immigrants gladly take the work instead. Their own countries have been suffering income disparity from the parasite class, the elite who own all the capital and use peasants to do the work. The peasants rarely revolt because they are uneducated and superstitious.

To get rid of the illegals make it easier for law abiding citizens to start and run businesses and make it impossible for those born to illegals to become automatic citizens. When the illegals intersect with the system (school, hospitals, traffic stops) send them back home. No welfare, benefits or other entitlements unless you are a LEGAL resident. But this can only happen if we take back government from the lawyers and cut the strings from finance that control them. To do that end the Fed.
Old 03-26-2011, 10:03 PM
kilgoja kilgoja is offline
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this country treats it's visitors better than the people that were born here...every other country in the world treats their own people better and shuns visitors.....try going to another country and asking for free education or college or asking to get put on welfare...rofl...they'd probably shoot you and think nothing of it
Old 03-27-2011, 02:10 AM
PremierT&L PremierT&L is offline
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Originally Posted by kilgoja View Post
.....try going to another country and asking for free education or college or asking to get put on welfare...rofl...they'd probably shoot you and think nothing of it
The US does not give free education to illegals or give them any government assistance. Don't believe everything you read on the internet.
Old 03-27-2011, 02:29 AM
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PlantscapeSolutions PlantscapeSolutions is offline
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Our country has always depended on foreign labor to do the dirty work. It was Irish or eastern Europeans doing the hard jobs in the early days. Iím down in Texas where it can be about 100F 4-5 months out of the year. Unless your crew is from fantasyland it will not be made up of pale skinned folks down here or in most southern areas. Who in the hell would want to bust their azz in the heat when they can get an AC job else where? Here if you hire an American they are on parole, probation, or they will work a week and disappear. Iíve had over 200 Americans work for me with no luck.

I spent $4000 to do the work visa thing four seasons ago but that was the year the visa program went to hell and lots of people got no workers. I hired two temporary guys from Guatemala to help out when I didnít get my visa guys. Four seasons later I have the same guys and couldnít be happier. My guys all pay taxes just like I do. Are their credential legit? All Iím going to say is I have copies of documents that look good enough for me.

If you use someone elseís Social Security number you will get a letter in the mail but if the number is faux you will likely never get a letter. The SSA is collecting tons of money from people who will never see a cent of it and they know it. The way most companies get in trouble with immigration (ICC) is by abusing workers and not treating them fairly. If you do your workers right youíll likely never have any issues from the gov.

You canít run a crew of Americans because itís a constant revolving door of people coming and going that kills quality control. The houses you live in, the food you eat, and a whole lot more would not be feasible without foreign labor. If anyone thinks the United States could get where it is today without foreign labor your very naive. Iím originally from Maine and even way the hell up in northern Maine they need foreign labor to help with the potato crop. The green industry, hotels, construction, agriculture, and a whole lot more would come grinding to a halt if you had to depend on Americans to do the job.
Old 03-27-2011, 10:24 AM
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Patriot Services Patriot Services is online now
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Originally Posted by PremierT&L View Post
The US does not give free education to illegals or give them any government assistance. Don't believe everything you read on the internet.
BULLPUCKEY! Any illegal can register their child at any public school. The only requirement is proof of immunizations. Which, you guessed it, are available free of charge at any public health clinic. My biggest complaint with illegals is the fact that most of the money they earn here is sent out of the country never to be seen again. They live 10 to a one bedroom trailer and don't spend squat on the local economy.
Old 03-27-2011, 11:50 AM
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Turf Commando Turf Commando is offline
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Originally Posted by Patriot Services View Post
BULLPUCKEY! They live 10 to a one bedroom trailer and don't spend squat on the local economy.
For sure.. seen it quite interesting how they all fit..!!!

Michigan has two seasons, winter and road construction.....!!!

Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. Ecclesiastes 9:10
Old 03-27-2011, 11:55 AM
sdk1959 sdk1959 is offline
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Originally Posted by RECESSION PROOF MOWING View Post
Depends on which side you're on, I suppose. But this has always been a fascinating topic for me because we all benefit and get hurt by cheap labor. The argument is akin to the "buy American only" debate. Is it better for society as a whole for me to buy a Samsung tv from overseas on the cheap? America doesn't even make tvs any more, or most things for that matter. If America added $150 to every set and I didn't buy, is that better than sending my money to Korea or wherever?

Landscaping is similar. It's great if you own a subdivision and share expenses with others and that Mexican crew mows all your unbuilt lots on the cheap. Hey, the non-Mexican guys bid $500 more per cut! You save a ton of money over the season, don't you? Does society really benefit by your homes association paying cheaper dollars to get work accomplished or does it somehow come back to you paying more for American labor? Tough call.

My mom lives in an upscale condo development in Leawood, KS, around 355 condos, and a Mexican labor, well known crew rolls in there and bids out $600 per cut. Yes, that's correct...$600. Next highest bid was about $1500 per cut. They've got the bid forever and my mom says they do a damned good job. I couldn't get out of bed for that money. Literally, couldn't even roll over and listen to $600. The condo group, my mom and her neighbors all win. Nobody else in the picture does...society loses. Decent wages loses. And the elephant in the room that nobody forsees...eventually...the Mexican labor in 15 years won't cut grass for that wage either. They'll wise up. All minority groups eventually get real and refuse to work for nothing.

I don't see a solution to this problem. As I don't see how Detroit will ever compete with Toyota and Honda. Those days are long gone. The 1980's ruined 'em. While Toyota and Honda were raising quality and lowering prices, Detroit was putting out Dodge Aries and Plymouth Acclaims.

So, answering the question...Mexican labor wins, Mexico wins, Americans who benefit from the low cost cutting win...and you guys on the front lose. That's just how I see it.
It has everything to do with the exchange rate. Why some people really think the Mexicans work that cheap have thier head in the ground. One dollar is about 12-13 Peso's which is worth about $5.00. A $250,000 home here is $50,000 in Mexico, and NOT in some slum area either.

The Mexicans can do it that cheap because every dollar earned here and sent back home to Mexico can buy $5.00. So that $600.00 is really worth $3000.00 to them. Why do you think they pay smugglers big $$ or cross deserts to work here? Because if they were paid $12.00hr it's really like $60.00hr when that money is sent home and exchanged for Peso's.

Outsourcing work to foreign countries only benefits the company that does it.
Just read where GE paid no income taxes this year and got billions in tax subsidies for next year and they are a huge outsource of work and jobs.

As Americans become more and more selfish with every passing year with the attitude that unless they are affected by something directly they have no concern even though something will affect them indirectly and in the future directly. Other countries protect their jobs, not America, we open the floodgates and wonder why our standard of living drops lower and lower. Oh but we saved money on shoddy goods and put millions of Americans out of work, pay more on all taxes to carry those who lost their good paying jobs, more for gas and oil as China ramps up and guzzle more oil, more on education tuition as the millions who lost their jobs and their children go to college so they can get a decent paying job.

Only ones laughing all the way to the banks are the corporations that outsource. And we believe their propaganda that it's good for Americans
Old 03-27-2011, 12:44 PM
bmac1996acc bmac1996acc is offline
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Originally Posted by SNAPPER MAN View Post
Irritech, I agree 1000%. if Americans didnt have the mentality that they are too good for manual labor or working for anything less than $40k a year we wouldn't have a illegal immigration and unemployment problem.
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I think Mexicans need to take on the mentality of Americans. If they did, they wouldn't have to come here to work and Mexico would be in much better shape. Personally I don't want this country to be like Mexico, where the average worker makes just $115 a month.

So the successful should model themselves after the unsuccessful?
Old 03-27-2011, 12:50 PM
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PlantscapeSolutions PlantscapeSolutions is offline
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That .99 cent head of lettuce at the grocery store going to cost you $20 if the foreign labor is gone. Your $150K house is going to go up by $20K to construct are you ready for that? Many business's would simply have to close down and move operations to Mexico because there are many jobs that you just can't get Americans to do any any price. You have no idea how much of our world revolves around our need for reliable laborers that do not exist here legally.

I'm willing to bet that the majority of the people that think foreign labor is a problem are one person companies that do not have to rely on other Foreman and crew members to do the job. Anyone who runs crews from the office knows the mere idea of ever having a reliable crew of Americans is laughable.

As long as there have been Americans there has been a foreign labor here doing the dirty work. Before it was the Irish or eastern Europeans. Do a little research on the history of American labor since the industrial revolution and you will find our country was pretty much built on foreign labor since day one.
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