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  #71  
Old 03-27-2011, 03:31 PM
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PlantscapeSolutions PlantscapeSolutions is offline
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Originally Posted by Patriot Services View Post
Premier- so your saying this whole illegal immigrant issue is just a figment of our imagination? You proudly state you have vast experience with this criminal element. You obviously don't work for ICE. So I'll make the stereotypical assumption you must "employ" them thus being part of the problem itself.
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Exactly how does an illegal pay into social security. One must have a SS# to pay into that system and you have to be a citizen/resident alien to get a number. By law anybody can walk into an American emergency room regardless of citizenship or economic status and by federal law receive treatment. You seem to have a problem with the word ILLEGAL. I agree the problem is not new but it can no longer be ignored.
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I didn't create the term. Its technically and factually correct. It is the term assigned that class of persons by the US government. I don't make the laws, I just follow them like a proper citizen. By using a STOLEN ss# that somehow doesn't qualify as a crime?
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Please don't put words in my mouth PS. There are huge problems surrounding our current immigration status and policies, but I also know that many of the claims made by you and others are largely untrue. I also know to blame our current econonmic situation on illegals is a joke. We have the deregulation of banks to thank for that, but that is another conversation.

Stop deflecting the conversation on to me and focus on the discussion at hand. There is no free education for illegals. Illegals are not eligible for public assistance. Illegals pay into social security and receive zero benefits. If anything, our governement has allowed the exploitation of these people for the last 2+ decades, and now that we're in this recession they are a convenient scapegoat for politicians, and folks like yourself buy right into it. Most of the problems associated with illegals could be corrected somewhat easily with reform. Allow them to work legally, but regulate them and tax them and they pay their own way and can be positive contributors to society.

The difference between my viewpoint and your is that I don't view most of these people as "criminal element". I view them as people doing whatever it takes to feed their families. They broke 1 law, which was entering the country illegally, and had they had a legal option to come here they would have taken that option. I don't throw the word criminal around lightly. To me, a crimianl is someone who robs, steals, kills, sells drugs, ect, ect. The huge mojority of illegals here don't fall into that category.
Agreed pretty much in full! The only thing that would worry me about some sort of amnesty is it would probably cause the cost of labor to increase. One of my year round laborers made $24.5K last year.
  #72  
Old 03-27-2011, 03:39 PM
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Maybe were getting to the root of YOUR problem. My grandparents on both sides arrived here legally through Ellis Island. I served my country for 20+ years and military still pay taxes, fica and ss like any other legal worker. I served with people that jumped through flaming hoops to become legal residents so they could enlist. Breaking the speed limit is a far cry from border crossing and identity theft. Liberals just love to dance around touchy subjects with politically correct terms. If you are within our borders you are obligated to abide by our laws. The very fact the government is unaware of an individuals presence and therefore their identity makes them a potential threat economically or criminally.
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  #73  
Old 03-27-2011, 03:51 PM
kilgoja kilgoja is offline
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Originally Posted by PremierT&L View Post
The US does not give free education to illegals or give them any government assistance. Don't believe everything you read on the internet.
legal or illegal...it doesn't matter does it...you're missing the point...i know i sure didn't get any help or any assistance when i went to college
  #74  
Old 03-27-2011, 03:55 PM
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SNAPPER MAN SNAPPER MAN is offline
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Honestly many undocumented workers working with fake ssn's are what is keeping social security going. They are paying into something they will never see a cent from. I have no problem with a person working to better themselves. You can't make the argument that they are taking Americans jobs because 99% of Americans wouldn't want that job in the first place, and that is because in the classroom they preach that unless you go to college you are nothing and cannot make a living at blue collar labor which is bull.
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  #75  
Old 03-27-2011, 04:02 PM
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With double digit unemployment I would wager a number of them would do jobs previously done by illegals. Make somebody have to earn that unemployment check and they will change their perspective on what kind of work they would be willing to do.
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  #76  
Old 03-27-2011, 04:31 PM
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PlantscapeSolutions PlantscapeSolutions is offline
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With double digit unemployment I would wager a number of them would do jobs previously done by illegals. Make somebody have to earn that unemployment check and they will change their perspective on what kind of work they would be willing to do.
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In the past I tried about 200 Americans as crew members. All I have to show for it is a lot of headaches, some lost accounts due to poor quality, guys bringing beer to work, other guys bringing weed to work. I speak from experience when I say I've beaten the horse to death on giving Americans a try. If I had to depend on Americans as a source of labor I would quit right now.

The average lifespan of an American crew member is about 30 days from my experience. You waste all your time training them and when you finally think they may not totally suck POOF they disappear. Now you get to start all over. All you have to show for your effort is pissed off clients and maybe some broken equipment.

Not worth the stress at all. You do what needs to be done in this line of work to improve your business, maintain quality control, and keep your stress level in check. You go hire a bunch of Americans and your competition will come in right behind you walk away with your pissed off clients.
  #77  
Old 03-27-2011, 05:02 PM
PremierT&L PremierT&L is offline
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Originally Posted by Patriot Services View Post
Exactly how does an illegal pay into social security. One must have a SS# to pay into that system and you have to be a citizen/resident alien to get a number. By law anybody can walk into an American emergency room regardless of citizenship or economic status and by federal law receive treatment. You seem to have a problem with the word ILLEGAL. I agree the problem is not new but it can no longer be ignored.
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I'm glad you're at least asking questions. There is something called the earnings suspense file. This is where all of the money goes that is collected by social security from workers who have false numbers. Undocumented workers contribute something like $6 billion a year into the ESF which now contains something like $600 billion. Don't take my word for it. Do a google search and read about it.

When you or I hire workers, we get a copy of their SS card and license or I 9 if they are not American citizens. Then we take out social security, taxes, ect. and send it in to the government. The government takes that social security money whether the social security number is a match.
  #78  
Old 03-27-2011, 05:05 PM
PremierT&L PremierT&L is offline
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Originally Posted by kilgoja View Post
legal or illegal...it doesn't matter does it...you're missing the point...i know i sure didn't get any help or any assistance when i went to college
No you're actually the one missing the point. You claimed that illegals are getting into college for free in the US. This is 100% false. Oh and btw, we as Americans do get plenty of assistance for college in the forms of grants and student loans. Are you saying you didn't take advantage of those opportunities, or that you aren't aware of them?
  #79  
Old 03-27-2011, 05:06 PM
sdk1959 sdk1959 is offline
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Originally Posted by PlantscapeSolutions View Post
That .99 cent head of lettuce at the grocery store going to cost you $20 if the foreign labor is gone. Your $150K house is going to go up by $20K to construct are you ready for that? Many business's would simply have to close down and move operations to Mexico because there are many jobs that you just can't get Americans to do any any price. You have no idea how much of our world revolves around our need for reliable laborers that do not exist here legally.

I'm willing to bet that the majority of the people that think foreign labor is a problem are one person companies that do not have to rely on other Foreman and crew members to do the job. Anyone who runs crews from the office knows the mere idea of ever having a reliable crew of Americans is laughable.

As long as there have been Americans there has been a foreign labor here doing the dirty work. Before it was the Irish or eastern Europeans. Do a little research on the history of American labor since the industrial revolution and you will find our country was pretty much built on foreign labor since day one.
I am so sick of hearing this BS propaganda. Why do Mexicans work so hard? IT'S THE EXCHANGE RATE !!!!!! Every dollar earned here is worth 12-13 Mexican Peso's the equivalent of $5.00 here. So if your paying your Mexican workers $12.00hr what it is REALLY worth to them after that money is sent back home to Mexico and converted to Peso's is $60.00hr. A lot of Americans would work hard at a unskilled job for $60.00Hr, for $12.00hr- not really.

Don't believe me about the exchange rate? Here's a link below to the exchange rates. Do you see other foreigners flocking to America to work here? Canadians? Are you calling the rest of the world lazy? And you know why no other foreigners are coming specifically to work here? It's the exchange rate pure and simple- nothing else.

Other countries protect their jobs, not America. And the rest of the world thinks were nuts for doing so.

Yeah your right prices would go up if only American labor were used and not cheap foreign labor but so would wages and the available number of American jobs.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with imports IF those countries don't limit American imports to their country. China is a good example. Not only do they severely limit any imports but if you want to sell more of your product there you have to set up shop there to manufacture it and hire Chinese workers.

http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi?Am...=35&image.y=15
  #80  
Old 03-27-2011, 05:08 PM
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Patriot Services Patriot Services is online now
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I won't disagree on the fact of the American work ethic declining. Some people can't be motivated for any price.
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