Register free!
Search
 
     

Click for Weather
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 03-04-2011, 06:16 PM
ChiTownAmateur ChiTownAmateur is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 386
You have an existing stand of grass and want to plant new grass so 2 different issues exist -- how to fertilize the new seeds and also how to prevent crabgrass without preventing germination of your new seed.

I used Scott's Starter w/crabgrass preventer (siduorn) and it works fine. A bit expensive....$45/5000 sq ft at regular home improvement center but my lawn is so small i don't care, that lasts me several seasons.

By the 2nd week of April crabgrass is germinating in the area under normal conditions so if you wait much longer you risk crabgrass in your plot. My suggestion is to closely monitor the weather and search onlilne for soil temperatures near your major city i.e. I have 2 sites I follow and found simply by typing "chicago soil temperature" and there is a daily report.

What you risk here is if you plant to early you may have your new seedlings killed off. Last year, because I am close to the lake I planted on Apr 3 and here by the lake it never froze although in the suburbs that don't have lake protection it would have frozen.

A "safe" idea for you is this. 1st week of April, put down the starter fert with crabgrass preventer so that your plot is "immunized" from crabgrass...but don't seed the bare areas yet. So you are fully protected from crabgrass now, but the starter fert and preventer only lasts say 30 days.

In mid-April (2nd or 3rd week), as soil temps come up, plant your plots that need new seed. The starter fert and crabgrass preventer will still be there and do their jobs. 30 days after your first app of the starter fert w/preventer (NOT 30 days after you plant), apply it again. Thus you have a new round of prevention and your new plot getting another shot of fert right after it comes up and is in need of another shot.

Fescues in this area only take 2-3 weeks to come up, I did it last year with Supina bluegrass which takes a solid 3-4 weeks so you'll have enough time to get it rooted before it gets too hot.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-04-2011, 09:14 PM
wyoming lawn service wyoming lawn service is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownAmateur View Post
You have an existing stand of grass and want to plant new grass so 2 different issues exist -- how to fertilize the new seeds and also how to prevent crabgrass without preventing germination of your new seed.

I used Scott's Starter w/crabgrass preventer (siduorn) and it works fine. A bit expensive....$45/5000 sq ft at regular home improvement center but my lawn is so small i don't care, that lasts me several seasons.

By the 2nd week of April crabgrass is germinating in the area under normal conditions so if you wait much longer you risk crabgrass in your plot. My suggestion is to closely monitor the weather and search onlilne for soil temperatures near your major city i.e. I have 2 sites I follow and found simply by typing "chicago soil temperature" and there is a daily report.

What you risk here is if you plant to early you may have your new seedlings killed off. Last year, because I am close to the lake I planted on Apr 3 and here by the lake it never froze although in the suburbs that don't have lake protection it would have frozen.

A "safe" idea for you is this. 1st week of April, put down the starter fert with crabgrass preventer so that your plot is "immunized" from crabgrass...but don't seed the bare areas yet. So you are fully protected from crabgrass now, but the starter fert and preventer only lasts say 30 days.

In mid-April (2nd or 3rd week), as soil temps come up, plant your plots that need new seed. The starter fert and crabgrass preventer will still be there and do their jobs. 30 days after your first app of the starter fert w/preventer (NOT 30 days after you plant), apply it again. Thus you have a new round of prevention and your new plot getting another shot of fert right after it comes up and is in need of another shot.

Fescues in this area only take 2-3 weeks to come up, I did it last year with Supina bluegrass which takes a solid 3-4 weeks so you'll have enough time to get it rooted before it gets too hot.
Thank you for the advice! I have already set out the seed, did that over the last two days. I think I will follow your advice. Put down the starter w/ preventer in beginning of April and then I will apply MORE seed to the areas that are bare. Appreciate it!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-04-2011, 09:16 PM
wyoming lawn service wyoming lawn service is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by RigglePLC View Post
Wyoming,
see, reading the label fine print is a good thing. You are correct, in your plan. Crabgrass is a bear. Plan your moves carefully. Sock down the Siduron 7 days in advance of crabgrass germination. Apply the Prodiamine after the second mowing. If weather is normal and nothing goes wrong--you should be fine. Just make sure it doesn't rain on the day you plan to do the work. You sound like a perfectionist--a top engineer for NASA, I am thinking.
Not an engineer by any means...BUT I am a perfectionist. Aren't YOU?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-04-2011, 09:18 PM
wyoming lawn service wyoming lawn service is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
A label that tells you when CG will germinate... May 10th... wow... We are lucky to get cool season grasses to germinate by the end of May sometimes... Sometimes they'll pop by May 1st...
Hardly ever get CG here, even in open tilled garden soil, with full sun all day long b4 June...

You are able to get fert without herbicides, and herbicides without ferts, aren't you?

Bottom line is if you are scared to grow the grass b4 CG comes in then definately use a grass friendly Pre-m... Itis expensive maybe the only only reason not to use it...

I guess it works OK, but I never have used it myself...

SmallAxe, I read in another post that you NEVER use Pre-M. Why? Does your area not get a lot of crabgrass? Southern Ohio gets a lot, especially last year. What is your strategy? Do share...also if you think I am waisting money by using Siduron, please explain. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-05-2011, 12:51 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,819
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyoming lawn service View Post
SmallAxe, I read in another post that you NEVER use Pre-M. Why? Does your area not get a lot of crabgrass? Southern Ohio gets a lot, especially last year. What is your strategy? Do share...also if you think I am waisting money by using Siduron, please explain. Thanks.
I am a pro that has seen each individual situation of every individual lawn, I've worked with over the past 40+ yrs...

One size does NOT fit all... Under what circumstances does CG become a "PROBLEM" in your area???

Only you can answer that question, becuz you're the one that lives there and "SEES" what is happening... But you have to observe...

I firmly believe that any turf can reach a level of maturity in any 'zone' and eliminate the threat of CG...
I know it can happen in Zones 3 & 4... You tell me if it can happen in Z5-9...

Not sure how much explanation is needed to make the simple concept clear... Except perhaps answer "1" question... When do YOU see CG in YOUR area???
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-05-2011, 07:51 PM
tombo82685 tombo82685 is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Drexel Hill, pa
Posts: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyoming lawn service View Post
SmallAxe, I read in another post that you NEVER use Pre-M. Why? Does your area not get a lot of crabgrass? Southern Ohio gets a lot, especially last year. What is your strategy? Do share...also if you think I am waisting money by using Siduron, please explain. Thanks.
What you also gotta look at is location. His area has better chance of getting away with no pre emerge because there soil temps/growing season is shorter than yours and mine. So what might work with him, might not work for you.

Just like on golf courses up there compared to down here. Courses up there may get away with no or limited fungicides. Down in my area, if you try that you're out of job.

Like smallaxe said, you know your area and how it reacts to certain conditions. It's up to you to determine what is acceptable and not acceptable.
__________________
Delaware Valley college 08'
-Bachelors degree in Agronomy specialized in Turf Management
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-05-2011, 11:11 PM
wyoming lawn service wyoming lawn service is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 108
Tombo, appreciate the response. I can see how things will vary from location. Appreciate the advice and knowledge.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-06-2011, 08:21 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,819
Tombo is correct, that KNOWING what is happening in your area is important...
It would be good for Pros to know WHEN the CG sprouts in their area...

I have an open area in the garden, where the ground is tilled in the springtime so I know that that will be the earliest possible germination in our area... Because it is barren soil, it is easily spotted immediately...
Turf takes longer, even in full sun and of course turf in the shade longer yet...
Have fun...
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:45 PM.

Page generated in 0.10360 seconds with 7 queries