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  #31  
Old 03-31-2011, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by americanlawn View Post
I agree with ICT Bill. Spoke with a local rep too (Imprelis is risky).

Regarding plant health -- NO PLANT prefers its natural growing height reduced. Grass, trees, shrubs, etc. I mow my Kentucky bluegrass at 4 inches just to minimize stress. It's healtheir and crowds out weeds.

Too bad many homeowners mow short, and/or bag the clippings, cuz they are creating problems. My 2 cents
Or whack down their bushes to unnatural sizes and shapes.
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  #32  
Old 04-01-2011, 12:19 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by dirtandhoops View Post
Or whack down their bushes to unnatural sizes and shapes.
Maybe if people choose regionally appropriate plants that can grow without the need for constant pruning to keep them under control .... then maintaining the landscape would be much cheaper, less inputs required, and the plants would be much healthier.

I know this comment probably isn't welcome here, given it doesn't fit into the profit only mindset that this forum is apparently about, but I figured I'd risk it anyhow. After all, who the hell cares about good land stewardship or BMP's when you can turn a quick buck.
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  #33  
Old 04-01-2011, 09:20 AM
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Kiril, I respect your philosophy but your umbrella doesn't quite cover my comment. I was referring more to the placement of plants as foundation plantings. For instance, viburnums whose natural beauty is taken away by harsh pruning, or worse, shearing. But I don't want to hijack this thread so that is far as I'm going to go.
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  #34  
Old 04-01-2011, 01:22 PM
GrassPlusLLC GrassPlusLLC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICT Bill View Post
I am not saying that you are not an upstanding person in your community, obviously you are. If there was any offense taken on my comment it was not intentional

Endocrine disrupter's disrupt the endocrine system! they disrupt the hormonal system so that it cannot function, HELLO!

you are being sold a bag of crap by the people you speak with that are touting this as some kind of green product, it is not, it is poison times X, and very concentrated

"you can use much less" WHY? have you not asked the question, because it is really concentrated poison that is an ENDOCRINE DISRUPTER, look it up, it is not smart, do not bring your clothes home and near your family.

Have you read the label?
You cannot use it within 15 feet of shrubs
you cannot spray it on roots of trees
you cannot spray it within 25 feet of water
it is extremely toxic to fish

are you F'n crazy, where could you possibly find a lawn that meets those parameters


ICT BILL

You seem very knowledgeable based on other posts I have seen. I am considering using imprelis this season and I am attempting to separate fact from fiction.

Please read the Imprelis label again. You made four points in the above post. One of which is clearly correct and three that don't seem accurate based on the label that I have in front of me.

1) You cannot use it within 15 feet of shrubs

I do not see this on the label. The label says that you can not allow the product on shrubs or any drift on shrubs(pretty standard for other products in use). It says to apply between 3 and 4.5 oz/k. It goes on to say that you can apply at 6 oz/k if you are not within 5' of desirable plants. Please tell me what section of label says you can't use within 15' of shrubs. Perhaps I missed it?

2) You cannot spray on roots of trees and shrubs

I see that on label and agree. However, a commercial applicator should be able to avoid spraying on exposed roots. I can see why this should never be GUP. I can see why it might be a problem when sending out applictors that forget what they are applying or don't have proper written instructions from their supervisor.

3) You cannot spray it within 25' of water.

The 25 foot buffer restriction is under the heading " Application Restrictions for Sod Farms and Turf (EXCEPT residential, Institutional, or Industrial)"
I do not see this as a restriction on residential lawns. However, the "Environmental Hazards" section does warrant very careful use near water. It would certainly help if Dupont was a bit clearer on issues with rainfall. The "environmental Hazards" section says to avoid application when rainfall is [B]forecasted[B] within 48 hours. Forecasted and actual rainfall are obviously two different things. The product is rainfast immediately which will definitely help with results, but is it smart to apply during or close to rain as some on this site plan? Good question for dupont

4) It is extremely toxic to fish

This may be the case. I do not have the msds in front of me, but I do have the label and while there are warnings regarding surface water and groundwater contamination, I do not see anything on the label that says it is extremely toxic to fish. Most pesticides that are extremely toxic to fish clearly state such on the label. Please advise -maybe I missed the warning.
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  #35  
Old 04-01-2011, 09:07 PM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrassPlusLLC View Post
ICT BILL

You seem very knowledgeable based on other posts I have seen. I am considering using imprelis this season and I am attempting to separate fact from fiction.

Please read the Imprelis label again. You made four points in the above post. One of which is clearly correct and three that don't seem accurate based on the label that I have in front of me.

1) You cannot use it within 15 feet of shrubs

I do not see this on the label. The label says that you can not allow the product on shrubs or any drift on shrubs(pretty standard for other products in use). It says to apply between 3 and 4.5 oz/k. It goes on to say that you can apply at 6 oz/k if you are not within 5' of desirable plants. Please tell me what section of label says you can't use within 15' of shrubs. Perhaps I missed it?

2) You cannot spray on roots of trees and shrubs

I see that on label and agree. However, a commercial applicator should be able to avoid spraying on exposed roots. I can see why this should never be GUP. I can see why it might be a problem when sending out applictors that forget what they are applying or don't have proper written instructions from their supervisor.

3) You cannot spray it within 25' of water.

The 25 foot buffer restriction is under the heading " Application Restrictions for Sod Farms and Turf (EXCEPT residential, Institutional, or Industrial)"
I do not see this as a restriction on residential lawns. However, the "Environmental Hazards" section does warrant very careful use near water. It would certainly help if Dupont was a bit clearer on issues with rainfall. The "environmental Hazards" section says to avoid application when rainfall is [B]forecasted[B] within 48 hours. Forecasted and actual rainfall are obviously two different things. The product is rainfast immediately which will definitely help with results, but is it smart to apply during or close to rain as some on this site plan? Good question for dupont

4) It is extremely toxic to fish

This may be the case. I do not have the msds in front of me, but I do have the label and while there are warnings regarding surface water and groundwater contamination, I do not see anything on the label that says it is extremely toxic to fish. Most pesticides that are extremely toxic to fish clearly state such on the label. Please advise -maybe I missed the warning.
Yes you caught me I was paraphrasing and not quoting the label.

IT IS AN ENDOCRINE DISRUPTER!!!!!!!!!!! its main purpose is to disrupt the hormonal system in plants, if you believe that we may have maybe one or 2 things in common........well you make the choice

Make sure you tell everyone of your customers that they can no longer use their lawn clippings in their compost or in their garden on the ground as a weed suppressor , I do it all of the time especially in the spring when you have to rake the excess off so it does not smother the turf. Doesn't that worry you a little that it is SO persistent

The marketing is very good and you are being told "it is almost green"......... six legged frogs and unisex fish scare the hell out of me whatever endocrine disrupter it is coming from, its just not smart
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  #36  
Old 04-02-2011, 11:19 AM
GrassPlusLLC GrassPlusLLC is offline
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ICT BILL

I was not trying to catch you. I was actually trying to get more information from you in order to sort through all the heavy marketing of the product to determine if I should use it.

All the products I use concern me. I especially do not like using extremely corrosive products like three way that can burn your eyes out. Being that Imprelis is not corrosive, requires very little PPE per label, has no nasty smells is applied in small quantities, perhaps allows for fewer applications per season, can be applied at seeding and at high temperatures etc., I am considering it.

The endocrine disruptor issue you have referred to is certainly a concern. I will have to research that issue and attempt to determine if it is a human endocrine disruptor or if it clearly is not. Wish me luck-I'm a lot of things, but no scientist. This could be the issue that prevents me from using it. Your concern of humans being similar in someway to plants is well taken.

The persistence issue (assuming approximately six months or less) that I have heard does not concern me in itself. That is the characteristic that may allow less applications per season and less product introduced into environment. The persistence would be an issue for me if it somehow caused more opportunities for the product to leach or move from application area or to water table. Could it have received approval with out that issue being worked out? Seems hard for me to believe, but I suppose possible.

In Connecticut we must supply all labels to customers before contracting services. The compost warning is not that much of an issue to me. One of the reasons to use the product is for its residual properties. It's easy to tell customer not to compost clippings because the more expensive product we are using works for a longer period of time and the clippings can kill your plants(up to a reasonable time frame of course- say 6 months or so). If I used it, I would also tell them that is is not corrosive, won't burn my eyes out, won't smell nasty and is applied at 4.5 oz per acre as opposed to 60ish oz/acre like most three ways. We will see
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  #37  
Old 04-03-2011, 02:39 AM
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JDUtah JDUtah is offline
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Bill,

I am also waiting on some expanded information. May I refer you to this post?
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  #38  
Old 04-03-2011, 12:53 PM
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HayBay HayBay is offline
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The EPA only allows the use of Safe Products. If they receive info that they believe makes a product unsafe it will be removed from the market.

They have removed products for political reasons in the past with products like DDT.
Now there is talk about bringing it back.

You need to follow the label on any product to use it safely.

Fearmongering = endocrine disrputor
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  #39  
Old 04-03-2011, 01:12 PM
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DUSTYCEDAR DUSTYCEDAR is offline
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proper mowing goes a long way to a good lawn
as does overseeding
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  #40  
Old 04-03-2011, 02:30 PM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HayBay View Post
The EPA only allows the use of Safe Products. If they receive info that they believe makes a product unsafe it will be removed from the market.
I've been looking everywhere for that information. Where can I find that statement made by the EPA?
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