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  #31  
Old 03-12-2011, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
Back on topic: I have not seen the negatives of going over what I consider starvation rates of N.
Brother, do not shoot the messenger, I was just relaying the info. LOL



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By the way some industry savants and the acclaimed researchers talk, my lawns ought to be unmaintainable, near death. But the opposite is true. Could it be that I am using the appropriate N source for the grass and soil chemistry? Or that I apply more than token amounts of K along with micronutrients.
I am sure this may have something to do with it, I do not fertilize many lawns anymore, but I used to use and still do on my own lawn more K than N in any given feeding. The blends I use also contain at least trace amounts of some of the micros. The result I have gotten is good color, without excessive growth.

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The other factors that make a difference in grass appearance is the soil underneath and irrigation practices. The lawn that is not watered deeply and infrequently tends to have problems.
I agree with you on this point to.
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  #32  
Old 03-12-2011, 01:20 PM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
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Sorry, if it seemed like I was burning you at the stake for that. I just have issues with the sound good and feel good information being put out to unsuspecting people.

I cannot imagine going with pre blended, low analysis fertilizers that do not fit the needs of the turf. A 50 lb bag of anything starts at $20. To put down the the required amount of N and K is usually pushing $200 per acre. Even if ordering in multi ton lots. Low rates of ammonium sulfate and potassium nitrate blended with soluble micronutrients cut the cost per acre by at least 1/2 while giving me the best turf response. In my area, I get a very poor response from "slow release". If it is mostly slow release: not enough response in the beginning and a sudden dump at the end. Urea also does nothing to address the soil chemistry issues that I need to deal with.

I do not mow most of the lawns that I spray. But I know the people that are doing the mowing. If I caused too much vertical growth, there is a good chance I end up as shark food. I notice urea causes lots of vertical growth compared to color. Ammonium sulfate gives better color and less vertical growth. However this does not apply to yard chumps broadcasting dry crystal 21-0-0 at 5-7 lb per 1000. Those guys get grass that thankfully stops growing like crazy by 30 days after application.
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  #33  
Old 03-12-2011, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
Sorry, if it seemed like I was burning you at the stake for that. I just have issues with the sound good and feel good information being put out to unsuspecting people.

I cannot imagine going with pre blended, low analysis fertilizers that do not fit the needs of the turf. A 50 lb bag of anything starts at $20. To put down the the required amount of N and K is usually pushing $200 per acre. Even if ordering in multi ton lots. Low rates of ammonium sulfate and potassium nitrate blended with soluble micronutrients cut the cost per acre by at least 1/2 while giving me the best turf response. In my area, I get a very poor response from "slow release". If it is mostly slow release: not enough response in the beginning and a sudden dump at the end. Urea also does nothing to address the soil chemistry issues that I need to deal with.

I do not mow most of the lawns that I spray. But I know the people that are doing the mowing. If I caused too much vertical growth, there is a good chance I end up as shark food. I notice urea causes lots of vertical growth compared to color. Ammonium sulfate gives better color and less vertical growth. However this does not apply to yard chumps broadcasting dry crystal 21-0-0 at 5-7 lb per 1000. Those guys get grass that thankfully stops growing like crazy by 30 days after application.
Green

You given the reason for my rate of 1/4 lb N per thousand of Ammonium Sulfate. For pure Dark Green color nothing beats a shot of Ferrous sulfate and Ammonium sulfate, especially on our calcareous sand. But you won't catch me using Ferrous Sulfate any more. it eats pumps and parts from the inside out. It can be a very expensive Cheap product. I believe Bug Guy 26 uses that blend or claims too.
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  #34  
Old 03-12-2011, 03:42 PM
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Interesting! I use A/S in blends, either as MESA or in a 50/50 biosolid mix. Our heavy clay soils with negatively charged ions attract the a/s plus charges, and gives it much more slow release properties. I stay at about 3/4 to 1 lb N/K throughout the year, and don't see the flush of growth - unless our continuous drought ends brieflly with 8 - 10 inches of rain in a week.

Our weather here is "long periods of drought, followed by occasional flooding". It was bone dry last spring, then we had 8 inches of rain the week before and after July 4th.

It didn't rain again until Sept 8-9 when we had 15 inches! Didn't rain again until Christmas Eve.
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  #35  
Old 03-15-2011, 04:41 AM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
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Your weather sounds something like mine. No rain for months, then it storms for a couple of days, then back to hot and dry. So all of my lawns are on automatic irrigation. I use the cleanest 21-0-0 I can buy because it goes into a liquid blend that I spray. Ammonium sulfate helps acidify soil. I cannot think of a worse growing media than red volcanic clay contaminated with salt and coral. pH runs 7.5-8.0 and it is a fight to make nutrients available. The real fun is when the previous yard chump or landscaper put down so much phosphorus as 16-15-15 that all of the other nutrients are locked up.
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  #36  
Old 03-15-2011, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
Your weather sounds something like mine. No rain for months, then it storms for a couple of days, then back to hot and dry. So all of my lawns are on automatic irrigation. I use the cleanest 21-0-0 I can buy because it goes into a liquid blend that I spray. Ammonium sulfate helps acidify soil. I cannot think of a worse growing media than red volcanic clay contaminated with salt and coral. pH runs 7.5-8.0 and it is a fight to make nutrients available. The real fun is when the previous yard chump or landscaper put down so much phosphorus as 16-15-15 that all of the other nutrients are locked up.
Green

I am crying not bragging that we have you beat with a 9.5 pH sandy soil with a CEC of less than 10. Oh and add in very low field capacity.
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