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  #31  
Old 03-21-2011, 08:51 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtandhoops View Post
Let's hear it for Arizona pea gravel yards.
Hahahaha, what does AZ have for indigenous grasses?, or anything that naturally resembles lawn.... :
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #32  
Old 03-21-2011, 11:00 PM
ParadiseLS ParadiseLS is offline
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Originally Posted by c2weech View Post
I like this point you make also as far as being ahead of the curve. I see from your location you are in Ontario. I have watched the movie"A Chemical Reaction" in my research which focuses on Ontario's banning of Synthetics. From the movie it makes it seem like all of Ontario now uses compost (or at least this is what I assumed)

My question to you is this true or do many in the province use organic fertilizers now?


And now a question to all Does this sound like an accurate distinction between the two Oncanic/Natural Fertz may be natural but the lawn is dependent still on the Ferts while maybe Compost Organics promotes an Organic and probably more importantly Sustainable Lawn?


Also do you guys think that the ferts. can really be called organic?
thanks again to all the feedback thus far
I will check out that movie (documentary, i assume???)

well, no, there is not an organic revolution here, and certainly compost hasn't taken over. yes, lots of companies advertise it (most of them do so just as part of an overseeding option--i.e. they stress the seeding, and mention compost as a detail of the process). what has happened is that Home Depot, etc. now offer fertilizers that do not contain any of a laundry list of chemicals. they are still the same basic water soluble sulfur-coated urea granules that are 30-0-3 or similar. are these products free of the worst chemicals? sure, but they don't exactly adhere to organic principles of sustainability or working with the soil.

yes to your last question for the reasons i just stated. compost drives sustainability. water-soluble nitrogen-boosting urea is giving the lawn methadone instead of crack. you haven't cured the addiction, you've just made it a less harmful dependency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by c2weech View Post
If I am a customer asking, "Why would I need to put compost and compost tea on my yard when TrueGreen offers Natural Lawn applications which are all natural organic fertilizers ?"
simply put: what good is fertilizer if your soil isn't adequate to absorb and process it efficiently for your lawn?

and i have saved some contracts i've seen from fert companies to show to prospective customers. the fine print always says something about the customer watering the lawn for 30 minutes every other day or other silly things. i, on the other hand tell my customers to water once a week (not at all if it got a nice rain), and that they can look forward to throwing out their sprinklers in a few years if they stick with my plan to build OM, support mycorrhizae and bacteria, and reduce apps and save money on top of all that.
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  #33  
Old 03-22-2011, 08:46 AM
c2weech c2weech is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadiseLS View Post
I will check out that movie (documentary, i assume???)
Yes a doccumentary. http://www.pfzmedia.com/#/images/sto...HomeDepot3.jpg Honestly I thought it was a lot better than I expected it to be. Especially living in Canada I think you will find it interesting

well, no, there is not an organic revolution here, and certainly compost hasn't taken over. yes, lots of companies advertise it (most of them do so just as part of an overseeding option--i.e. they stress the seeding, and mention compost as a detail of the process). what has happened is that Home Depot, etc. now offer fertilizers that do not contain any of a laundry list of chemicals. they are still the same basic water soluble sulfur-coated urea granules that are 30-0-3 or similar. are these products free of the worst chemicals? sure, but they don't exactly adhere to organic principles of sustainability or working with the soil.

yes to your last question for the reasons i just stated. compost drives sustainability. water-soluble nitrogen-boosting urea is giving the lawn methadone instead of crack. you haven't cured the addiction, you've just made it a less harmful dependency.Love the analogy!


simply put: what good is fertilizer if your soil isn't adequate to absorb and process it efficiently for your lawn?

and i have saved some contracts i've seen from fert companies to show to prospective customers. the fine print always says something about the customer watering the lawn for 30 minutes every other day or other silly things. i, on the other hand tell my customers to water once a week (not at all if it got a nice rain), and that they can look forward to throwing out their sprinklers in a few years if they stick with my plan to build OM, support mycorrhizae and bacteria, and reduce apps and save money on top of all that.
Paradise thanks for the response! Great info
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  #34  
Old 03-22-2011, 11:14 AM
quackgrass quackgrass is offline
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Originally Posted by Kiril View Post

All that said, strictly speaking an "organic" program should not use chems of any kind.
So we should only use peasants with wooden pitch forks to turn our compost piles and horses with wood sleds to haul it right?

Because currently we use tons of chemicals, ores and fuel for the equipment to produce and apply "organics," strictly speaking of course.
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  #35  
Old 03-22-2011, 11:21 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by quackgrass View Post
So we should only use peasants with wooden pitch forks to turn our compost piles and horses with wood sleds to haul it right?

Because currently we use tons of chemicals, ores and fuel for the equipment to produce and apply "organics," strictly speaking of course.
Inputs into the system Quack ..... but then you knew that, didn't you.

FYI ... I don't advocate building landscapes that are not regionally appropriate .... and preferably require no inputs of any kind .... including labor. Guess that means you are out of a job.
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  #36  
Old 03-22-2011, 11:34 AM
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JDUtah JDUtah is offline
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Kiril,

If you would be so willing, can you post a couple picks of these completely zero input landscapes you advocate? Thanks
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  #37  
Old 03-22-2011, 11:36 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by JDUtah View Post
Kiril,

If you would be so willing, can you post a couple picks of these completely zero input landscapes you advocate? Thanks
Drive to a naturalized area and take a picture.
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  #38  
Old 03-22-2011, 12:26 PM
quackgrass quackgrass is offline
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Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Inputs into the system Quack ..... but then you knew that, didn't you.
That's like selling an organic carrot on a styrofoam tray wrapped in cellophane, then calling it an organic product. Hypocrisy at its finest. You can keep trying to sell "organics" as sustainable by ignoring ALL the inputs, but if you want to move out of your mom's basement and get off welfare, you should cut the BS and start selling based on performance and leave out the spin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
FYI ... I don't advocate building landscapes that are not regionally appropriate .... and preferably require no inputs of any kind .... including labor. Guess that means you are out of a job.
Most of my work is environmental reclamation on mining sites, I have contracts on multiple EPA superfund sites to provide composting and native re-vegetation services. We are seeing an expansion in mining as nickel, cadmium and copper are in even greater demand, so I wouldn't worry about my job security. As long as the push for sustainable energy keeps the demand for battery and copper production high, I'll be good.
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  #39  
Old 03-22-2011, 12:37 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Originally Posted by quackgrass View Post
That's like selling an organic carrot on a styrofoam tray wrapped in cellophane, then calling it an organic product. Hypocrisy at its finest. You can keep trying to sell "organics" as sustainable by ignoring ALL the inputs, but if you want to move out of your mom's basement and get off welfare, you should cut the BS and start selling based on performance and leave out the spin.
I don't ignore any of the inputs quack. I assess all impacts when recommending products, which is one big reason why I don't recommend using plant based meals. Do you have something meaningful to discuss, or are you just here to throw around insults and troll for arguments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by quackgrass View Post
Most of my work is environmental reclamation on mining sites, I have contracts on multiple EPA superfund sites to provide composting and native re-vegetation services. We are seeing an expansion in mining as nickel, cadmium and copper are in even greater demand, so I wouldn't worry about my job security. As long as the push for sustainable energy keeps the demand for battery and copper production high, I'll be good.
Funny ..... I though most of your work was forestry related given what you have stated on this forum on multiple occasions. I just can't keep up. Yesterday it was 10's of thousands of trees .... today it's environmental reclamation.
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  #40  
Old 03-22-2011, 03:31 PM
quackgrass quackgrass is offline
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Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Funny ..... I though most of your work was forestry related given what you have stated on this forum on multiple occasions. I just can't keep up. Yesterday it was 10's of thousands of trees .... today it's environmental reclamation.
You can subscribe to my newsletter if you really want to stay current:

http://www.anacondasuperfund.org/
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